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Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

 
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 06:39 am
Pauligirl wrote:


One critter that cannot breed will die.

But we're not talking about ONE critter. You may be, but that's not how this works.


That may be the case, but RL's delusion won't support that, so he's got to stick with it. You're talking here to a person whose ENTIRE existence centres around his belief in the cosmic jewish zombie. Like a drowning man desperately trying to get that last gasp of air, unless he fights then his whole sand castle will collapse around him.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 06:37 pm
hi Pauligirl,

Apparently you agree with ros that a new species doesn't start with one member. So how does it start with many?

Do a hundred or so that were born as species X suddenly have a midlife crisis and change to species Y overnight?

(Is counseling provided for them? Laughing )
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 07:33 pm
can someone explain multivariate statistical analysis to RL?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 07:59 pm
Wilson wrote:
Pauli girl wrote:


One critter that cannot breed will die.

But we're not talking about ONE critter. You may be, but that's not how this works.


That may be the case, but RL's delusion won't support that, so he's got to stick with it. You're talking here to a person whose ENTIRE existence centres around his belief in the cosmic Jewish zombie. Like a drowning man desperately trying to get that last gasp of air, unless he fights then his whole sand castle will collapse around him.


Yeah, that's what I've been saying to; he's fearful that his whole world will crumble before his eyes if he relents to the truth. Poor bastard; he was brainwashed from early in his life. His struggle is real.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:33 pm
farmerman wrote:
can someone explain multivariate statistical analysis to RL?

Probably not. Some things just can't be explained in a "Fun with Dick and Jane" reader.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 08:19 am
Pauligirl wrote:
Darwin proposed that evolution could be explained by the differential survival of organisms following their naturally occurring variation--a process he termed "natural selection." According to this view, the offspring of organisms differ from one another and from their parents in ways that are heritable--that is, they can pass on the differences genetically to their own offspring.


I hope you're not implying that Darwin originated the idea that parents pass their traits on to their offspring.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 08:45 am
HE originated what he now call "natural selection", in which his exact working theory included, simply stated:

1. Heritability of traits occurs through generations

2. Incrementally small changes occur in populations Through generations

3. More offspring are produced in a species than are able to be supported by the environment.

4. No two individuals of a population are exactly alike, and , at least part of these diferences are heritable.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 09:36 am
farmerman wrote:
HE originated what he now call "natural selection", in which his exact working theory included, simply stated:

1. Heritability of traits occurs through generations

2. Incrementally small changes occur in populations Through generations

3. More offspring are produced in a species than are able to be supported by the environment.

4. No two individuals of a population are exactly alike, and , at least part of these diferences are heritable.


Regarding heritable traits, any daddy and momma who've had a couple of munchkins that grew up to look exactly like daddy could have told you that traits are passed on from one generation to the next.

Mankind has known that for thousands of years, fm. Laughing

Don't tell me that this was part of Darwin's grand discovery. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 09:45 am
real life wrote:
Don't tell me that this was part of Darwin's grand discovery. Rolling Eyes


I don't believe farmerman did tell you that. Did you read his post in a superficial manner, RL?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 10:05 am
Well, ros has told me in the past that Darwin's theory 'predicted' heritability of traits. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2229792&highlight=predict#2229792

The posts by Pauligirl and Farmerman seem to imply that this concept was originated by Darwin.

I would like to see them clarify their statements.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 10:25 am
and we will never need to have you clarify yours.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 10:25 am
It seems your reading of their posts was superficial, RL.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 11:31 am
That is the charm of RL. Reading comprehension skills arent critical to Creationism.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 07:54 pm
farmerman, I believe you hit the nail on the head; "reading comprehension skills are't critical in creationism."

All that past mystery have now been cleared.
0 Replies
 
Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 09:18 pm
real life wrote:
Well, ros has told me in the past that Darwin's theory 'predicted' heritability of traits. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2229792&highlight=predict#2229792

The posts by Pauligirl and Farmerman seem to imply that this concept was originated by Darwin.

I would like to see them clarify their statements.


Darwin can clarify it for you.
http://www.visionlearning.com/library/module_viewer.php?mid=111
Although we properly credit Darwin with being the founding father of evolutionary theory, one of his own great gifts was being able to spot a good idea and synthesize information from many fields of knowledge. Darwin's success was due, in part, to having learned from others, just as the great physicist Isaac Newton claimed to have stood "on the shoulders of giants." Thus, to develop the concept of evolution by natural selection Darwin did not have to invent the idea that animals and plants were adapted to their environment, because that was already recognized in the late 1700s. He did not have to buck the Biblical story of a seven-day creation because the father of modern geology, Charles Lyell, had already shown that the earth's history extended over at least millions of years, not the thousands implied by the Bible. Darwin did not even have to come up with the idea of natural selection by himself - it was inspired by someone else! Another Englishman, Thomas Malthus, who was a clergyman and an economist, wrote Essay on the Principle of Population in 1798. Malthus argued (from an economic standpoint) that human population growth, if it were not reigned in by disease, starvation, war, and other factors, would naturally expand beyond our capacity to produce the food we need to sustain it. In other words, societies of people also are locked in a "struggle for existence." In his autobiography, Charles Darwin acknowledges this thought as the beginnings of natural selection.


Quote:
"In October 1838, that is, fifteen months after I had begun my systematic inquiry, I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population, and being well prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long- continued observation of the habits of animals and plants, it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The results of this would be the formation of a new species. Here, then I had at last got a theory by which to work."
Charles Darwin, 1876




Now...about this

Quote:
hi Pauligirl,

Apparently you agree with ros that a new species doesn't start with one member. So how does it start with many?
Do a hundred or so that were born as species X suddenly have a midlife crisis and change to species Y overnight?


I would think that if you had read some of the prior posts and links, you see that it's a rather slow process when left to nature. I suggest you read Evolution for Beginners, since you seem to have some problems with the basic ideas: http://www.evolution.mbdojo.com/evolution-for-beginners.html
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 07:10 pm
Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:
Well, ros has told me in the past that Darwin's theory 'predicted' heritability of traits. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2229792&highlight=predict#2229792

The posts by Pauligirl and Farmerman seem to imply that this concept was originated by Darwin.

I would like to see them clarify their statements.


Darwin can clarify it for you.
http://www.visionlearning.com/library/module_viewer.php?mid=111
Although we properly credit Darwin with being the founding father of evolutionary theory, one of his own great gifts was being able to spot a good idea and synthesize information from many fields of knowledge. Darwin's success was due, in part, to having learned from others, just as the great physicist Isaac Newton claimed to have stood "on the shoulders of giants." Thus, to develop the concept of evolution by natural selection Darwin did not have to invent the idea that animals and plants were adapted to their environment, because that was already recognized in the late 1700s. He did not have to buck the Biblical story of a seven-day creation because the father of modern geology, Charles Lyell, had already shown that the earth's history extended over at least millions of years, not the thousands implied by the Bible. Darwin did not even have to come up with the idea of natural selection by himself - it was inspired by someone else! Another Englishman, Thomas Malthus, who was a clergyman and an economist, wrote Essay on the Principle of Population in 1798. Malthus argued (from an economic standpoint) that human population growth, if it were not reigned in by disease, starvation, war, and other factors, would naturally expand beyond our capacity to produce the food we need to sustain it. In other words, societies of people also are locked in a "struggle for existence." In his autobiography, Charles Darwin acknowledges this thought as the beginnings of natural selection.


Quote:
"In October 1838, that is, fifteen months after I had begun my systematic inquiry, I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population, and being well prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long- continued observation of the habits of animals and plants, it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The results of this would be the formation of a new species. Here, then I had at last got a theory by which to work."
Charles Darwin, 1876



One hardly needs to 'stand on the shoulders of giants' to understand heritability of traits.

The fact that:

Quote:
Individuals within a population exhibit traits that may vary


and

Quote:
Parents pass their traits to their offspring


are commonly included in renditions of Darwin's 'Four Postulates'.

Both of these have been self evident to mankind for thousands of years.

One might as well include:

Quote:
Members of a species require food and water for sustenance


and credit Darwin with 'insight' and his 'ability to synthesize' this idea into his theory as well. Laughing


Pauligirl wrote:
Now...about this

Quote:
hi Pauligirl,

Apparently you agree with ros that a new species doesn't start with one member. So how does it start with many?
Do a hundred or so that were born as species X suddenly have a midlife crisis and change to species Y overnight?


I would think that if you had read some of the prior posts and links, you see that it's a rather slow process when left to nature. I suggest you read Evolution for Beginners, since you seem to have some problems with the basic ideas: http://www.evolution.mbdojo.com/evolution-for-beginners.html


It would seem apparent that a 'new species' must begin with 1 member, then 2, and after that 3, and so on.

Perhaps admitting this makes it too evident that 'speciation' (as proposed by evolutionists) is stuck in a catch-22 situation.

If one member of a 'new species' is born, who will he breed with?

If he can breed with the existing species, then he is not a 'new species'.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 09:29 pm
real life wrote:
It would seem apparent that a 'new species' must begin with 1 member, then 2, and after that 3, and so on.

You're stuck in a loop. We've explained why this simply isn't true several times now.

A species never starts with one member, any more than a Chihuaua pops out of a Wolf. But we still have Chihuaua's, and we still have Species.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 05:58 am
rosborne979 wrote:

You're stuck in a loop.


Bad programming does that!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 06:09 am
Einsteins development of E=mc** has the same "Obviousness" that you alude to Darwins 4 bases of natural selection

Einstein thought , "Vel,ve haf F=Ma and, vat is da fastest "v" zat ve kan imachin. Vy its ze speet ov lite "C" . SO How bout ve use "C" instead of "V" and make it "C**" inshteat of "a". Zat oughta vork." "I haf chust come up viz somesink here"


Of course Im paraphrasing but many great isead are basically composed of "why didnt I think of that".? When you admit to its understanding there RL, perhaps youre a bit too close to the "dark side" Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 07:44 am
Perhaps RL has a timing problem. He believes in Biblical time; that is the earth is young; ten's of thousands years old.

If RL has to accept the slow transition of one species to another he has to accept an old earth. Creationist don't accept an earth billions of years old so if anything happens in evolution it has to happen quickly. A will have to begat B because there in no time in the Creationist world for A to slowly change into B. The period of time these changes occur is, in many instances, older than the Creationist earth.
0 Replies
 
 

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