65
   

Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2012 07:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
The melanic albinism is seen quite a bit actually. Ive seen a whole bunch of pictures of village portraits where there would be one or even two albino kids in specific tribal groups.The ones I saw were shots from the museum collection of an old explorer/ diletante named Levi Mengel. Pretty something else no? The social pressures of these kids were such that they were often excluded from tribal affairs and they went childless themselves so the gene frequency may actually be decreasing >
Id look up more scholarly stuff on tribal (melanic) albinism
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2012 07:19 pm
@farmerman,
Are you saying that this baby can not be white but instead albino? What I mean is there a possibility that the baby is white and will not have the problems that an albino would have?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2012 07:32 pm
@reasoning logic,
The issue of these melanic albino kids is that they arent completely without pigment. They have features that show their descendant relationship to their parents. Its just that they are more blond than black. The curly blond hair and the eyes are giveaways. If the baby would have been a product of a "Jeffersonian" peckerdilo, then the kid would be a bit different color wise. The kid would have had one of the parents hair color for instance.
Most all the pics of these albinos showed them with various shades of blond or even a slight "Ginger".

Its not a single nucleotide polymorphism that accounts for these kids. I expect it is some complex ressesive btrait that hangs on some other gene complement that is carried by certain familial groups.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2012 07:42 pm
@farmerman,
Thanks for you input.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2012 10:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
no problem. You can see several sites that feature discussions of albinism in backs as well as other races. The main feature is that the lack of pigmentation in albino whites results in really fair (chalky) look and pinkish eyes.
In blacks the color "pallette" seems to include melanin
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 06:29 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Seems the argument that you try to make is constantly being stomped on by genetic data.


What argument is made by the "genetic data"? One might stomp a Faberge egg to dust. Then what?

Do you approve or disapprove of Conrad Murray performing the evolutionary feat of getting 8 kids out of 5 different females?

Will you answer the question this time fm because if you don't we are all going to think that you high-tail it as soon as the substance of evolutionary thinking appears. Christians do not approve of Mr Murray's actions.

An evolutionist who disapproves for pragmatic reasons will necessarily need to offer policies similar to the "one child" policy operating now in China.

It is well known that filibustering with technologically dazzling word formulations is a sure sign of vacuity on the substantive issues which are easily discussed in language most of the population are familiar with.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 06:31 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
The genomic "count of differing nucleotide pairs is kinda irrelevant cause some of the coded amino acids have GA/GA/GA/GA repeats that go on for thousands of segments describing an (N/3) amount of amino acids and thence , proteins.


Can you explain that fm in a way I might understand it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 06:38 am
@spendius,
Quote:
One might stomp a Faberge egg to dust. Then what?
Well, I suspect that youd probably go to jail if caught cause I know it wouldnt be yours since youve pissed away most of your cash

Quote:
Do you approve or disapprove of Conrad Murray performing the evolutionary feat of getting 8 kids out of 5 different females?
The third option is that I havent thought about it at all.

Quote:
Christians do not approve of Mr Murray's actions.

Good for them.We probably need more Christains telling us what we do wrong

Quote:
It is well known that filibustering with technologically dazzling word formulations is a sure sign of vacuity on the substantive issues which are easily discussed in language most of the population are familiar with.
I suspect that you are just clueless and lashing out is a mere defense mechanism. Have a beer. Its almost noon isnt it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 06:42 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Its not a single nucleotide polymorphism that accounts for these kids. I expect it is some complex ressesive btrait that hangs on some other gene complement that is carried by certain familial groups.


Are you ruling out simpler explanations?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 06:46 am
@spendius,
Im open to anything reasonable. I just dont know, do you? Why not enlighten us. Dont just stand there letting me think youre a fool, open your mouth...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 07:15 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Well, I suspect that youd probably go to jail if caught cause I know it wouldnt be yours since youve pissed away most of your cash.


Try not to be so silly fm. The tax on beer represents an investment. The real price of beer is peanuts. The cost of my two pints a night, which is recommended by many medical men, is £35 a week. At least £30 of that is tax. The detached retina operation I had would cost £6000 I was told and only a fraction of the £30 tax goes to the NHS. There are other benefits.

I could reduce the £3o tax burden, a fleabite on my income, by taking the medicine at home but then I would miss out on the social interaction in pubs which is often of significant economic benefit as well.

I might add that it is intellectually absurd to take a pedantic, legalistic position on a well chosen metaphor.

Quote:
The third option is that I havent thought about it at all.


Slippery ****** aren't you? I asked you to think about it and give us your decision and not go into cop-out Ignore mode. I suspect you disapprove of Mr Murray's actions in regard to his genetic success but daren't say so because it might suggest you are inside out on the matter. Isn't evolutionary success measured in terms of number of offspring. Those organisms on the endangered species lists are there because they haven't produced enough offspring.

I can't imagine any scientific mind being impressed by your sullen evasion.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 07:17 am
@farmerman,
I think Occam might have said that before we go any further we should investigate whether it is a stunt.
0 Replies
 
scienceguy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 03:31 pm
@aperson,
mutation by definition is far from evolution...for starters mutation is the same mass or properties changing order....such as hair,eye color... etc...etc... also in evolution, the fact is there is not 1 provable example that it has ever happened... in modern time,...or fossils... think there would be at least 1 half bird half frog!...also evolution theory basis start on the big bang... the proof is in scientific law that the big bang theory is not only improbable,... but impossible according to the LAWS of science....see "Conservation of angular momentum." unless this LAW is wrong, even though it is proven theory thousands of times over....The Big Bang theory also ignores the First law of Thermodynamics, which says:
"matter cannot be created or destroyed" yet theory says something exploded out of nothing... so this is more a religion ( etc... leap of faith ) rather than theory...basic facts are...reproduction,mutation,geneology...are all by definition not a supporting factor of evolution by definition...fact is... no one knows a scientific answer...
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 03:35 pm
@scienceguy,
Quote:
The evidence, as (Darwin) presented it, mostly fell within four categories: biogeography, paleontology, embryology, and morphology. Biogeography is the study of the geographical distribution of living creatures"that is, which species inhabit which parts of the planet and why. Paleontology investigates extinct life-forms, as revealed in the fossil record. Embryology examines the revealing stages of development (echoing earlier stages of evolutionary history) that embryos pass through before birth or hatching; at a stretch, embryology also concerns the immature forms of animals that metamorphose, such as the larvae of insects. Morphology is the science of anatomical shape and design. Darwin devoted sizable sections of The Origin of Species to these categories.

Biogeography, for instance, offered a great pageant of peculiar facts and patterns. Anyone who considers the biogeographical data, Darwin wrote, must be struck by the mysterious clustering pattern among what he called "closely allied" species"that is, similar creatures sharing roughly the same body plan. Such closely allied species tend to be found on the same continent (several species of zebras in Africa) or within the same group of oceanic islands (dozens of species of honeycreepers in Hawaii, 13 species of Galápagos finch), despite their species-by-species preferences for different habitats, food sources, or conditions of climate. Adjacent areas of South America, Darwin noted, are occupied by two similar species of large, flightless birds (the rheas, Rhea americana and Pterocnemia pennata), not by ostriches as in Africa or emus as in Australia. South America also has agoutis and viscachas (small rodents) in terrestrial habitats, plus coypus and capybaras in the wetlands, not"as Darwin wrote"hares and rabbits in terrestrial habitats or beavers and muskrats in the wetlands. During his own youthful visit to the Galápagos, aboard the survey ship Beagle, Darwin himself had discovered three very similar forms of mockingbird, each on a different island.

Why should "closely allied" species inhabit neighboring patches of habitat? And why should similar habitat on different continents be occupied by species that aren't so closely allied? "We see in these facts some deep organic bond, prevailing throughout space and time," Darwin wrote. "This bond, on my theory, is simply inheritance." Similar species occur nearby in space because they have descended from common ancestors.

Paleontology reveals a similar clustering pattern in the dimension of time. The vertical column of geologic strata, laid down by sedimentary processes over the eons, lightly peppered with fossils, represents a tangible record showing which species lived when. Less ancient layers of rock lie atop more ancient ones (except where geologic forces have tipped or shuffled them), and likewise with the animal and plant fossils that the strata contain. What Darwin noticed about this record is that closely allied species tend to be found adjacent to one another in successive strata. One species endures for millions of years and then makes its last appearance in, say, the middle Eocene epoch; just above, a similar but not identical species replaces it. In North America, for example, a vaguely horselike creature known as Hyracotherium was succeeded by Orohippus, then Epihippus, then Mesohippus, which in turn were succeeded by a variety of horsey American critters. Some of them even galloped across the Bering land bridge into Asia, then onward to Europe and Africa. By five million years ago they had nearly all disappeared, leaving behind Dinohippus, which was succeeded by Equus, the modern genus of horse. Not all these fossil links had been unearthed in Darwin's day, but he captured the essence of the matter anyway. Again, were such sequences just coincidental? No, Darwin argued. Closely allied species succeed one another in time, as well as living nearby in space, because they're related through evolutionary descent.

Embryology too involved patterns that couldn't be explained by coincidence. Why does the embryo of a mammal pass through stages resembling stages of the embryo of a reptile? Why is one of the larval forms of a barnacle, before metamorphosis, so similar to the larval form of a shrimp? Why do the larvae of moths, flies, and beetles resemble one another more than any of them resemble their respective adults? Because, Darwin wrote, "the embryo is the animal in its less modified state" and that state "reveals the structure of its progenitor."

Morphology, his fourth category of evidence, was the "very soul" of natural history, according to Darwin. Even today it's on display in the layout and organization of any zoo. Here are the monkeys, there are the big cats, and in that building are the alligators and crocodiles. Birds in the aviary, fish in the aquarium. Living creatures can be easily sorted into a hierarchy of categories"not just species but genera, families, orders, whole kingdoms"based on which anatomical characters they share and which they don't.

All vertebrate animals have backbones. Among vertebrates, birds have feathers, whereas reptiles have scales. Mammals have fur and mammary glands, not feathers or scales. Among mammals, some have pouches in which they nurse their tiny young. Among these species, the marsupials, some have huge rear legs and strong tails by which they go hopping across miles of arid outback; we call them kangaroos. Bring in modern microscopic and molecular evidence, and you can trace the similarities still further back. All plants and fungi, as well as animals, have nuclei within their cells. All living organisms contain DNA and RNA (except some viruses with RNA only), two related forms of information-coding molecules.

Such a pattern of tiered resemblances"groups of similar species nested within broader groupings, and all descending from a single source"isn't naturally present among other collections of items. You won't find anything equivalent if you try to categorize rocks, or musical instruments, or jewelry. Why not? Because rock types and styles of jewelry don't reflect unbroken descent from common ancestors. Biological diversity does. The number of shared characteristics between any one species and another indicates how recently those two species have diverged from a shared lineage.

Source: David Quammen, National Geographic Magazine, November 2004
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 03:35 pm
Gee. A real science guy at last. Praise the lord and pass the bullshit.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 03:36 pm
@scienceguy,
You don't understand evolution.

Quote:
ev·o·lu·tion/ˌevəˈlo͞oSHən/
Noun: ev·o·lu·tion/ˌevəˈlo͞oSHən/
Noun:
The process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the...
The gradual development of something, esp. from a simple to a more complex form.


That's the reason why the flu changes from season to season, and the 17 Darwin finches have developed different beaks for the food source available in the different environments.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 04:16 pm
@scienceguy,
Quote:
think there would be at least 1 half bird half frog!...
There are examples of 3/4 fish 1/4 amphibian in the fossil record at just about the time that geology predicted that such a transition from fish to land animals was beginning.

There is also an example of a 2/3 bird, 1/3 reptile also in the fossil record. It occured at the time that reptiles eveolved to birds.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 04:20 pm
@scienceguy,
Quote:
the fact is there is not 1 provable example that it has ever happened
most science doesnt engage in proofs. Proofs are for math and law. SCience ebgages in evidence. The fact that you deny the evidence isnt important because science just keeps moving on and making new discoveries every week.

The mere fact that the genomes of related animals and plants contain examples of each others genetic material inan "Off" or "On" condition shows that all living things are related on a bush.



Quote:
but impossible according to the LAWS of science....see "Conservation of angular momentum." unless this LAW is wrong, even though it is proven theory thousands of times over....
LAws are those things that can be described by an equation. There are several LAWs within the THEORY of NATURAL SELECTION. None of which are refuted by evolution.

NAme one piece of evidence that refutes evolution (Of course , it must be a factual piece of evidence,) not that crap that you believe that says there are no fossils or exmples of intermediates. THATS just flat wrong
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 06:15 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
NAme one piece of evidence that refutes evolution. . .


That all the cultures are different when evolution says they should all be the same. And where is evolution without our culture?

2, or 4, million years starting with the same protoplasm had to wait until 1859 AD for evolution. Flavour of the epoch old boy. Milk it eh?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 08:47 pm
@scienceguy,
Calling yourself "scienceguy" reminds me of Newt Gingrich calling himself "cheerful".
 

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