Pervert Or Not A Pervert?

Victor Murphy- There would be no way for me to tell, except if I actually observed the woman. What you are describing is meaningless out of context.

I don't think you as a male would be considered a pervert if you did that in public. Eccentric perhaps, but patting someone on the head is hardly a perversion.

When she starts sticking her hand down their pants for $5 then you can call her a pervert.

Well, I don't know that this woman is nuts, but she's certainly acting inappropriately.

Weren't all of us told growing up "Don't take candy from strangers"?

Giving a child a dollar like this is giving the message it's ok to take money from a stranger.

The fact that a parent doesn't insist on the stranger taking the money back is even worse!

Now the kids thinking is that taking money/candy is just fine, as they were allowed to do it right in front of their mom and dad....now, I'm a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. It doesn't matter if the parents tell the child "don't do that if you're alone, and we really shouldn't have let you take it even with us here."

The fact is they DID let it happen, right in front of their own eyes. That's what the child will remember.

I'm thinking this old lady is one of those who just never accepted that terrible things can happen to children by both strangers and people close to them. She sounds like she lives in a little pink bubble that's full of wonderful things.

It's a shame if her feelings get hurt if and when a parent steps up to the plate and explains why her money can't be accepted, but that's a small price to pay for your childs safety...not with her (although you never know) but with the stranger with try ill intent.

I'm with you Victor Murphy.

well if she clenches her fist and has a 30 metre run up to pat the child with 3000 pound foot of force using the underside of a punching fist and leaves a buck by the side of the unconscious child then no, no shes not a pervert.

but now to the point, what you described to me IS a pervert.

When I was a kid I would gladly have taken the buck. A little head pat would not have scarred me for life.

Not a pervert. Just a nice old lady.
I do agree with Chai though that there should be a discussion about the danger of taking things from strangers as a general rule.

I do exactly the same thing to bikini clad 20 year olds as they come out of the sea.

I've never been arrested for this, as I'm a pretty fast runner.

Agreed.

When I was little there was a guy that looked like Jesus that rode a lawnmower around Noblesville. He never spoke to me or patted my head, but he did pass out silver dollars to the kids if they approached him.

That was HUGE! We still had a penny candy store at that time and a dollar would fill a whole brown bag with candy. But, most of us didn't do that. The silver dollar itself was too much of a novelty.

Forty years later I remember this fella, still have one of his silver dollars dated 1967, and do not feel he scarred me for life. If anything, I feel bad that we were kinda scared of him cause he wouldn't talk.

My point is that it may not be THIS lady who is the pervert, and may not scar you for life, but the way it is opening the door for a real pervert to make his offering.

Childrens judgement is obviously not all it should be, neither are parents evidently.

I'm 4, 5 or 6 and an old lady gives me a dollar while eating at a restaurant. The parents let this happen. They explain to me, at length, not to do this if they are not around.

Yeah right....

How many of you have point blank told your child NOT to do something, only to find them right in the middle of it 5 minutes, or 5 days later? Every single one of you. If you say no, that's because you didn't catch them.

If later on, a pervert offers the child a dollar, candy, what have you, there's a pretty good chance the child will not only be tempted, but accept. They might do it even if the parents had refused the old lady's dollar, but again, actions speak louder than words.

Children are abducted and never seen from again every day. Since they are gone forever we'll never know if they were offered a dollar or what have you.

When I was a kid, my brothers would sometimes take me on an adventure walking down the railroad tracks from our house as far as our school, less than a mile away. I thought it would be fine one day to make the trip myself. When I got home I discovered a neighbour had reported seeing me wandering off to my mother.

I got the standard lecture of not going down there, that there were "bad men" who would take me away...etc. etc.

All that did was make me more alert if that "nosey" neighbour was "spying" on me when I wanted to walk down the tracks, and increased my sneakatude.

Jeez, I thought that was a standard childhood lesson. DO NOT TAKE GIFTS FROM STRANGERS! I didn't see the disclaimer about dotty old ladies or if the parents are there and give a lecture afterwards.


Question: Why WOULD you let the child accept this money from this old lady stranger?

Because she "seemed" nice?
Because she was old?
Female?
Because you didn't want to hurt her feelings?
Because you didn't want to appear mean or rude.

We cannot watch our children every second, so we must make the seconds we are with them count. I don't think refusing the gift falls into the paranoid parent catagory, this is a really basic function of parenting.

What's that old song say?.....We've got to be cruel to be kind, in the right measure.

CHAI TEA SEZ

We gotta get5 you in touch with Sig David. Hell outfit you with a nice lady-like 45 calibre weapon so you can blow away your nosey neighbors next time the tracks beckon.

damn right...

that old lad gettin' all in my bidness.

My parents did't know we were accepting silver dollars.

However, when they saw me accepting handmade paper dolls and paper doll clothes from the two old ladies that lived in the brick building next to the water treatment plant, they made me stop. I always thought it hurt the ladies feelings. My parents said we shouldn't bother them. Never thought I was. They seemed to be delighted to make and share with my sisters and me.

As a parent I don't recall this ever happening and having to decide on the spot what to do. I think I would have had to evaluate the incident as it happened because I think there is also a lesson in learning how to recieve a gift and how to be generous to strangers.

BTW, we sit our children on the lap of a dressed up old man that promises to bring them whatever they ask for and don't cringe.

Once when my kids were small (youngest still in a stroller, older child about 3) we were approached by an elderly lady in a coffee shop. She just wanted to admire the kids on her way out the door and we exchanged a few pleasantries. My older son scowled through the entire exchange.
"What on earth's the matter?" I asked as she left.
"You...you...were talking to a STRANGER!"
I guess the lesson sank in.

But seriously, you do have to speak to children about how to get help if lost etc. That might mean approaching a stranger. I always recommended asking a busy cashier in a store for help. They don't have time to abduct your kid but can call store security or the cops.

I think that's an important point. You do have to teach the child how to make distinctions about who it's okay to talk to and who it isn't. Because life is such that they can't get away with never talking to a stranger. I've taught both of my kids to trust their gut. If someone is making them feel uncomfortable in any way, walk away and start screaming if you have to.
And the moment anyone says, "This is our secret" - tell me.

But in reality, most of the time, if there is a pervert molesting them, it's not a stranger at all. It's someone they know from within their immediate or extended family or a neighbor, etc.

I was just answering the question. I don't think a little old lady who hails from a different time patting a kid on the head and giving him a dollar is doing anything perverted at that moment in time. She may very well be a pervert at other times in other areas of her life - but I wouldn't have her arrested for doing that to my kid-although I'd probably encourage her to keep her money, with a smile, and tell my child later that though she's trying to be kind, it's not necessary or really appropriate for them to accept money from people they don't know.

How about when you are in a store and they hand out stuff to kids? In the mall before one of the stores with items directed at kids, had some one handing out stickers. This person approached my daughter and gave her a sticker. My daughter looked up at me and I said it was o-k. I also told this person that they should not directly give the stickers to the child, but instead to the parent. She looked at me and shock and then you could she realization set in and she said you are right, children should be taking things from strangers.

In similar types of situations, including getting cheese at the deli or cookies from the bakery, I always remind my children it is o-k because I am with you. I also let them know that most people are nice, but you don't know who is nice and not nice simply by looking at them, so it is better not to take things unless mom or dad say it is o-k first.

Also, many times when I go in a store, I make it a point to explain who they should go to if they get lost. I explain they should go to some one who works there and ask them how they would know if they work in the store. I have also explained that if they cannot find a policeman or if they are not in a store or some where they are unsure - they should approach a mom with children. I actually got this tidbit from a safety information packet.

And no this woman is not a pervert - just loves children - I would say something nicely to her though - explaining you are trying to protect your children and again suggest she give the dollar to the parent for the child.

I once was in an arcade and this young boy came up to me and asked for money or tokens. I was shocked - instead of getting tokens he received a lecture from me. Sadly there was no parent in sight - I would have given them an earful as well.

Reminds me of this old thread of mine:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11449

It came up a few times after that, I did the "need to teach safety..." spiel, she didn't think much of it but oh well.

In short, I think that it's not definitely a sign of anything nefarious, at all. As in, person offering dollar is NOT automatically a pervert by a long shot. Nonetheless, from the parenting side of it, I think it should be discouraged (in as cordial/ friendly a manner as possible).

I have a basket of candy in my office. The children have learned that it is always full. Even the two year olds now know it is there and are anxious for Mom or Dad to need to visit me for some reason or another.

When I see them eyeing the basket, looking from the mound of candy to me and back again, I always tell them it's alright with me, but they have to ask Mom/Dad first.

(Hehe. What parent is gonna say no and have to be the bad guy? That's how I hook 'em in, see. Get 'em with the candy...)

I'm actually torn on this. I'd much prefer that my kids learn that most people are nice and not have to worry them with "boogey men." How sad that from such a young age we have to worry about a stranger cooing at our babies and what that might instill in the minds of our young, especially when the chances of an abduction are rather slim.