Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

CJ, It surprises me too! I remember when the last excution was planned at San Quinton, many showed up to protest. I wonder why they didn't initiate something for the ballot in the coming elections - or past elections?

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CalamityJane wrote:

real life wrote:
Francis wrote:

It has been proved that the CP is not a deterrent for criminals.

Nonsense.

No criminal who has been executed has committed additional crimes.

It's a 100% deterrent.

What a stupid answer is that? CP is NOT a deterrent for others to
commit crimes. The criminal behind bars doesn't need a deterrent -
he's already incarcerated.

Many incarcerated persons commit murder, theft, rape, etc

Are you unaware of this?

Or do those victims of those crimes not really count because they are 'just criminals' and 'they're probably getting what they deserve' ?

Hint: Criminals who are incarcerated also[/u][/i] manage to perpetrate and coordinate crimes against those on the outside. Clever fraud schemes, murder for hire, the list is quite impressive.

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Having a death penalty is no different than having a war..... wars cause the death of both guilty and innocent, for whatever reason... so why is it ok to have wars but not the death penalty???

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real life wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
real life wrote:
Francis wrote:

It has been proved that the CP is not a deterrent for criminals.

Nonsense.

No criminal who has been executed has committed additional crimes.

It's a 100% deterrent.

What a stupid answer is that? CP is NOT a deterrent for others to
commit crimes. The criminal behind bars doesn't need a deterrent -
he's already incarcerated.

Many incarcerated persons commit murder, theft, rape, etc

Are you unaware of this?

Or do those victims of those crimes not really count because they are 'just criminals' and 'they're probably getting what they deserve' ?

Hint: Criminals who are incarcerated also[/u][/i] manage to perpetrate and coordinate crimes against those on the outside. Clever fraud schemes, murder for hire, the list is quite impressive.

That's the fault of the system, not lack of CP. Got to reform the system.

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edgarblythe wrote:

real life wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
real life wrote:
Francis wrote:

It has been proved that the CP is not a deterrent for criminals.

Nonsense.

No criminal who has been executed has committed additional crimes.

It's a 100% deterrent.

What a stupid answer is that? CP is NOT a deterrent for others to
commit crimes. The criminal behind bars doesn't need a deterrent -
he's already incarcerated.

Many incarcerated persons commit murder, theft, rape, etc

Are you unaware of this?

Or do those victims of those crimes not really count because they are 'just criminals' and 'they're probably getting what they deserve' ?

Hint: Criminals who are incarcerated also[/u][/i] manage to perpetrate and coordinate crimes against those on the outside. Clever fraud schemes, murder for hire, the list is quite impressive.

That's the fault of the system, not lack of CP. Got to reform the system.

How do YOU propose to 'reform the system' so that incarcerated criminals are unable to commit theft, rape, murder, etc ?

Put them all in solitary?

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Anyone can sit back fifty miles from a prison and be an "expert". If they can spend a trillion dollars at the drop of a hat for a stupid war, they can finance a prison system with better supervision and more separation.

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Well you're apparently the one with all the answers.

So......

Solitary for all?

Yea or nay?

If not, how DO you propose to keep incarcerated criminals from committing murder, rape, theft, etc ?

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There are answers if one really seeks to find some. I don't intend to quibble all day, when your intent is merely to muddle the issue anyway.

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Which part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" are you having trouble understanding, real life?

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edgarblythe wrote:

There are answers if one really seeks to find some. I don't intend to quibble all day, when your intent is merely to muddle the issue anyway.

I would like to clarify the issue.

You gave a general statement 'reform the system, it's the system's fault'.

I would like specifics to clarify your position.

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Eorl wrote:

Which part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" are you having trouble understanding, real life?

If you had read the whole thread, you would see I've answered this bogus argument.

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real life wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
There are answers if one really seeks to find some. I don't intend to quibble all day, when your intent is merely to muddle the issue anyway.

I would like to clarify the issue.

You gave a general statement 'reform the system, it's the system's fault'.

I would like specifics to clarify your position.

Any statement I make will be taken by you as something to be torn apart. If I argue for solitary, you will fault it. If I argue for something other, you will fault that, too. Because you are focussed on making the death penalty the only option, nothing will meet your approval.

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real life wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Which part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" are you having trouble understanding, real life?

If you had read the whole thread, you would see I've answered this bogus argument.

Oh, well that's alright then. Rolling Eyes

I don't see where you answered that question.

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I'm against capital punishment for the following reasons

1. It means you sanction the taking of innocent life. No judicial system is or ever will be perfect. Therefore by voting for cp you are voting to execute innocent people wrongly convicted.

2. If murder is wrong then so is judicial murder.

3. The argument that it acts as a deterrent has been shown to be false. In fact criminals are more likely to kill witnesses.

4. Its expensive...prisoners often wait many years in gaol before final execution...whilst lawyers and others make a lot of money.

5. Its cruel. See 4. And barbaric...electric chair etc. And why should the dependents of the criminal be made to suffer? You only create more mouths for the state to feed. See 4 again.

6. It achieves nothing...not even vengeance...to which we mortals are not apparantly allowed anyway. See bible.

7. It abrogates the principle of reform. Thats what prison is supposed to do ...make bad men good. I know it doesnt do that but that is the fault of the prison system not a fault with the principle itself.

8. It reflects badly on countries which practice cp. (ok that is a subjective judgement...but no country to my knowledge that has abandoned cp has re introduced it... with the exception of the USA)

Thats all for now...as for arguments in favour I honestly cant think of any.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I'm against capital punishment for the following reasons

1. It means you sanction the taking of innocent life. No judicial system is or ever will be perfect. Therefore by voting for cp you are voting to execute innocent people wrongly convicted.

2. If murder is wrong then so is judicial murder.

3. The argument that it acts as a deterrent has been shown to be false. In fact criminals are more likely to kill witnesses.

4. Its expensive...prisoners often wait many years in gaol before final execution...whilst lawyers and others make a lot of money.

5. Its cruel. See 4. And barbaric...electric chair etc. And why should the dependents of the criminal be made to suffer? You only create more mouths for the state to feed. See 4 again.

6. It achieves nothing...not even vengeance...to which we mortals are not apparantly allowed anyway. See bible.

7. It abrogates the principle of reform. Thats what prison is supposed to do ...make bad men good. I know it doesnt do that but that is the fault of the prison system not a fault with the principle itself.

8. It reflects badly on countries which practice cp. (ok that is a subjective judgement...but no country to my knowledge that has abandoned cp has re introduced it... with the exception of the USA)

Thats all for now...as for arguments in favour I honestly cant think of any.

Steve: Interesting points. I have a few comments.

1. I think that some would argue the "innocent" part of your argument. Agreed that no judicial system will ever be perfect, particularly with the personal agendas of politicians & lawmakers.

2. That is the big argument - in both directions. As with all of murder - certainly you would agree that there are varying degrees of "heinousness" and that seems to be an important point here.

3. I've read both ways on this subject.

4. The procedure is definitely flawed.

5. True. If termination is the only goal for CP - there could be more effective (humanitarily-speaking) methods utilized.

6. Not sure about this. In the literal-sense - there would be no way that a deceased person could kill again!

7. Agree.

8. Very subjective.

What do you think should happen to those who commit the heinous-crimes (that would otherwise allow for CP)?

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CalamityJane wrote:

real life wrote:
Francis wrote:

It has been proved that the CP is not a deterrent for criminals.

Nonsense.

No criminal who has been executed has committed additional crimes.

It's a 100% deterrent.

What a stupid answer is that? CP is NOT a deterrent for others to
commit crimes. The criminal behind bars doesn't need a deterrent -
he's already incarcerated.

Well it certainly helps with the recidivism rate.

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Nothing man does is "perfect," and that includes our legal system. If anybody is lookinng for "perfect," you ain't gonna find it.

I'm more concerned about the innocent Iraqis getting killed by our soldiers - without any legal rights. We talk about one innocent American life, but seem to ignore the thousands of Iraqis. Dead is dead, no matter how we rationalize it.

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CalamityJane wrote:

real life wrote:
Francis wrote:

It has been proved that the CP is not a deterrent for criminals.

Nonsense.

No criminal who has been executed has committed additional crimes.

It's a 100% deterrent.

What a stupid answer is that? CP is NOT a deterrent for others to
commit crimes. The criminal behind bars doesn't need a deterrent -
he's already incarcerated.

Well it certainly helps with the recidivism rate.

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Do you start this nonsense of repeating previous responses again and again now as well?

Or are you ... Shocked

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real life wrote:

hi Linkat,

Well, let's be clear here.

Are you doubting that the unborn is living? (If you think the unborn is NOT living, can you tell me if you think the unborn is dead?)

Or

Are you doubting that the unborn is human? (If you think the unborn is NOT human, can you tell me what sort of organism you think the unborn is?)

I can provide proof for either. Let me know.[/quote]

The unborn is definately living - I have two kids and an unborn child is definately living. The controversy surrounds what determines human life. I don't have the answer - if I did there would be no controversy. I was simply pointing out various viewpoints.

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Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

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