Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

It certainly IS for us to decide. Who do you want to decide it, the murderer? In some cases, it's 12 people on a jury.

And the guards should get another job? Good answer. Someone's got to guard them or serve their food or allow them out for walks. They will need medical attention from time to time, will they not? At some point they will be exposed to innocent people, and someone who has no respect for human life should not be allowed to be near others they can possibly harm.

If there's the slightest chance of another person being killed due to a psychopath, their life should be forfeited.

And I have a right to that opinion.

echi, I know where you are coming from, but to use the refrain that killing one individual hurts ourselves is bullshet. If people like you are so concerned about "lives," you should be more concerned about our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that kills thousands of innocent people; men, women and children.

The balls in your court.

baddog1 wrote:

Given the varied responses & opinions - perhaps a couple of reasonable questions at this point would be:

If against CP:

1) What detailed method [if any] of "rehabilitation" would work for the most heinous?

Who cares?

Quote:

2) Should cost of housing/feeding, etc. of the most heinous be a consideration?

Of course not.

Quote:

3) Utilize Jeffrey Dahmer and his situation - and explain your thoughts on an appropriate sentence.

Life.

Your oversweeping statement about "corrupting our moral principals" is a throw-away statement. Our country with over 80 percent christians is the most crime riddled of any industrialized nation. Morals is not limited to the execution of a criminal.

What I argue is that capital punishment hurts our society, corrupting our moral principals and promoting a practice of denial so extreme that it requires the cold-blooded killing of a defenseless person.

...Our country with over 80 percent christians is the most crime riddled of any industrialized nation...

echi wrote:

baddog1 wrote:

Given the varied responses & opinions - perhaps a couple of reasonable questions at this point would be:

If against CP:

1) What detailed method [if any] of "rehabilitation" would work for the most heinous?

Who cares?

Quote:

2) Should cost of housing/feeding, etc. of the most heinous be a consideration?

Of course not.

Quote:

3) Utilize Jeffrey Dahmer and his situation - and explain your thoughts on an appropriate sentence.

Life.

1) OK! What then - should be done with these type criminals?

2) Why not?

3) "Life" could mean many different scenarios. Why so vague? Describe what you mean by "life".

echi wrote:

What I argue is that capital punishment hurts our society, corrupting our moral principals and promoting a practice of denial so extreme that it requires the cold-blooded killing of a defenseless person.

"Cold-blooded killing"? "Defenseless person"? What bizarre concepts. Talk about "denial."

Let me ask you this, echi: Is there any scenario, outside of the CP discussion, where you might find the killing of a human being to be justified or appropriate?

Lash wrote:

RL--

Stop approving killing. K?

I oppose abortion.

Do you?

How many are put to death due to capital punishment vs. how many are aborted each year?

Care to compare?

Forget about "rehabilitation". These people can't get along with other people, so they shouldn't get to live with other people.

real life wrote:

Lash wrote:

RL--

Stop approving killing. K?

I oppose abortion.

Do you?

How many are put to death due to capital punishment vs. how many are aborted each year?

Care to compare?

I oppose it too.

Care to wipe your face?

I just don't impose my decision not to have an abortion on other people.

Stop all the killing, RL.

Here's one of my sources (from Wikipedia):

International comparison
The Burglary rates of selected developed countries as published by the US Bureau of Justice Statistics.The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison.[16] Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits. Some countries such as Germany and Canada, however, have similar definitions of what constitutes a violent crime, and nearly all countries had the same definition of the characteristics that constitutes a homicide. Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Property crime in the US is actually lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the American homicide rate in the United States is exponentially higher. Interestingly enough, the overall violent crime rate in the United States was roughly half that of Canada, despite its homicide rate being 189.5% higher.[6][7] According to a recent study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, where crime figures were adjusted for international comparison, the United States had a lower overall burglary rate than Scotland, England, Canada, the Netherlands, and Australia. The other two countries included in the study, Sweden and Switzerland, had only slightly lower burglary rates.[16]

"Due to the difficulties of comparing national crime trends between countries some of the data included in this report may be adjusted or estimated. This is because of differences in measuring crimes and definitions of crime type. The report does however state clearly which pieces of data have been adjusted and why."-David P. Farrington, Patrick A. Langan, Michael Tonry (Bureau of Justice Statistics), 2004[16]


Despite the overall crime rate of the United States being seemingly in line with that of other industrialized countries, its homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

London and British crime rates have been increasing for years. Recently total crime rates for London have been estimated at about seven times those of New York for a slightly smaller population and some authorities suggest these figures have been minimized. England and Wales are now accounted by some estimates as the most dangerous places for crime in the developed world.

Here's one of my sources (from Wikipedia):

International comparison
The Burglary rates of selected developed countries as published by the US Bureau of Justice Statistics.The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison.[16] Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits. Some countries such as Germany and Canada, however, have similar definitions of what constitutes a violent crime, and nearly all countries had the same definition of the characteristics that constitutes a homicide. Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Property crime in the US is actually lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the American homicide rate in the United States is exponentially higher. Interestingly enough, the overall violent crime rate in the United States was roughly half that of Canada, despite its homicide rate being 189.5% higher.[6][7] According to a recent study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, where crime figures were adjusted for international comparison, the United States had a lower overall burglary rate than Scotland, England, Canada, the Netherlands, and Australia. The other two countries included in the study, Sweden and Switzerland, had only slightly lower burglary rates.[16]

"Due to the difficulties of comparing national crime trends between countries some of the data included in this report may be adjusted or estimated. This is because of differences in measuring crimes and definitions of crime type. The report does however state clearly which pieces of data have been adjusted and why."-David P. Farrington, Patrick A. Langan, Michael Tonry (Bureau of Justice Statistics), 2004[16]


Despite the overall crime rate of the United States being seemingly in line with that of other industrialized countries, its homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

London and British crime rates have been increasing for years. Recently total crime rates for London have been estimated at about seven times those of New York for a slightly smaller population and some authorities suggest these figures have been minimized. England and Wales are now accounted by some estimates as the most dangerous places for crime in the developed world.

Here's one of my sources (from Wikipedia):

International comparison
The Burglary rates of selected developed countries as published by the US Bureau of Justice Statistics.The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison.[16] Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits. Some countries such as Germany and Canada, however, have similar definitions of what constitutes a violent crime, and nearly all countries had the same definition of the characteristics that constitutes a homicide. Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Property crime in the US is actually lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the American homicide rate in the United States is exponentially higher. Interestingly enough, the overall violent crime rate in the United States was roughly half that of Canada, despite its homicide rate being 189.5% higher.[6][7] According to a recent study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, where crime figures were adjusted for international comparison, the United States had a lower overall burglary rate than Scotland, England, Canada, the Netherlands, and Australia. The other two countries included in the study, Sweden and Switzerland, had only slightly lower burglary rates.[16]

"Due to the difficulties of comparing national crime trends between countries some of the data included in this report may be adjusted or estimated. This is because of differences in measuring crimes and definitions of crime type. The report does however state clearly which pieces of data have been adjusted and why."-David P. Farrington, Patrick A. Langan, Michael Tonry (Bureau of Justice Statistics), 2004[16]


Despite the overall crime rate of the United States being seemingly in line with that of other industrialized countries, its homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

London and British crime rates have been increasing for years. Recently total crime rates for London have been estimated at about seven times those of New York for a slightly smaller population and some authorities suggest these figures have been minimized. England and Wales are now accounted by some estimates as the most dangerous places for crime in the developed world.

Here's one of my sources (from Wikipedia):

International comparison
The Burglary rates of selected developed countries as published by the US Bureau of Justice Statistics.The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison.[16] Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits. Some countries such as Germany and Canada, however, have similar definitions of what constitutes a violent crime, and nearly all countries had the same definition of the characteristics that constitutes a homicide. Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Property crime in the US is actually lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the American homicide rate in the United States is exponentially higher. Interestingly enough, the overall violent crime rate in the United States was roughly half that of Canada, despite its homicide rate being 189.5% higher.[6][7] According to a recent study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, where crime figures were adjusted for international comparison, the United States had a lower overall burglary rate than Scotland, England, Canada, the Netherlands, and Australia. The other two countries included in the study, Sweden and Switzerland, had only slightly lower burglary rates.[16]

"Due to the difficulties of comparing national crime trends between countries some of the data included in this report may be adjusted or estimated. This is because of differences in measuring crimes and definitions of crime type. The report does however state clearly which pieces of data have been adjusted and why."-David P. Farrington, Patrick A. Langan, Michael Tonry (Bureau of Justice Statistics), 2004[16]


Despite the overall crime rate of the United States being seemingly in line with that of other industrialized countries, its homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

London and British crime rates have been increasing for years. Recently total crime rates for London have been estimated at about seven times those of New York for a slightly smaller population and some authorities suggest these figures have been minimized. England and Wales are now accounted by some estimates as the most dangerous places for crime in the developed world.

Quote:

Forget about "rehabilitation". These people can't get along with other people, so they shouldn't get to live with other people.

So are you thinking of solitary confinement until they die?

What do you think about the "island" scenario? Place only the most heinous criminals together on an off-limits, otherwise uninhabited, undeveloped island and let them fend for themselves...

Might be interesting... :wink:

Here's one of my sources (from Wikipedia):

International comparison
The Burglary rates of selected developed countries as published by the US Bureau of Justice Statistics.The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison.[16] Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits. Some countries such as Germany and Canada, however, have similar definitions of what constitutes a violent crime, and nearly all countries had the same definition of the characteristics that constitutes a homicide. Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Property crime in the US is actually lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the American homicide rate in the United States is exponentially higher. Interestingly enough, the overall violent crime rate in the United States was roughly half that of Canada, despite its homicide rate being 189.5% higher.[6][7] According to a recent study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, where crime figures were adjusted for international comparison, the United States had a lower overall burglary rate than Scotland, England, Canada, the Netherlands, and Australia. The other two countries included in the study, Sweden and Switzerland, had only slightly lower burglary rates.[16]

"Due to the difficulties of comparing national crime trends between countries some of the data included in this report may be adjusted or estimated. This is because of differences in measuring crimes and definitions of crime type. The report does however state clearly which pieces of data have been adjusted and why."-David P. Farrington, Patrick A. Langan, Michael Tonry (Bureau of Justice Statistics), 2004[16]


Despite the overall crime rate of the United States being seemingly in line with that of other industrialized countries, its homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

London and British crime rates have been increasing for years. Recently total crime rates for London have been estimated at about seven times those of New York for a slightly smaller population and some authorities suggest these figures have been minimized. England and Wales are now accounted by some estimates as the most dangerous places for crime in the developed world.