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Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 07:47 am
For those of you who argue against CP based upon the possibility of executing an innocent person. What than is your argument when guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt?
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 08:08 am
Lash wrote:
I rewatched The Green Mile recently and was really stricken with the execution scenes and some comments.

The little Cajun was horribly murdered on purpose--for those who may not have seen it or forgotten--the execution is intentionally botched and he dies a horrific, drawn out death.

For reasons to forward the plot, the Tom Hanks character says "It was a successful execution. Edward Delacroix is dead." Although the people who gathered in the room to witness the execution had thrown up all over the place and were banging on the door to get out.

He was right. What did they want to see? Why weren't they pleased?

The scenes really resonated moreso this time than before.

Who wants to see an execution? I don't understand. Even if someone you love has been murdered--who does it help to see that? Who would want to make it happen? I wonder if people really think seriously about it when they support CP.


Lash I agree completely - and a wonderful movie. One of the few Steven King novels turned movie that translated well. Have you read it? If you liked the movie, then definately read the book.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:03 am
baddog1 wrote:
Quote:
Are you for or against the traditional method of capital punishment?

[Caveat: This thread is only about CP; not proof of guilt/innocence - which should be a separate topic. In other words: Said person has been found guilty of a crime such as murder, rape, etc. by our judicial system and no more appeals are available...] You are deciding if guilty person should be killed - or not...

If for CP - why?

If against CP - why?

If against CP - what (if anything) should happen to those convicted?


Let me try this another way: Confused

You're a member of the the jury on a murder-trial and guilt/innocence has already been established. (You and all other jurors are in complete agreement that this person heinously murdered another person.) Now comes the time for the jury to recommend the sentence. How do you vote???


I vote for a sentence that does not involve capital punishment.

I do not believe the government should have the power to execute its own citizens.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 12:32 pm
au1929 wrote:
For those of you who argue against CP based upon the possibility of executing an innocent person. What than is your argument when guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt?
I gave a list several pages ago. One example rehabilitation.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 01:44 pm
au1929 wrote:
For those of you who argue against CP based upon the possibility of executing an innocent person. What than is your argument when guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt?


Let's keep the burden of proof on those who would pull the trigger, so to speak.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 02:47 pm
Thanks, Linkat! I'll put it on my list to read!
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 06:31 pm
When the guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt, if there is no death penalty in force, the person gets life with no parole. That would be my solution.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 07:12 pm
I've often wondered, if someone did something wrong in the process of getting a person executed....say, planted evidence....should they also then face the death penalty for murder?
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sandspider
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 08:38 pm
capital punishment
the bible says "thou shalt not kill"
it doesn't say Thou shalt not kill, unless the guy was really bad, it says "Thou shalt not kill" period
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sandspider
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 08:52 pm
capital punishment
i think we should use very inhumane torture instead of death, it's scarrier. see the crime rate drop if male inmates get their balls kicked every hour for rape or murder
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 08:53 pm
au1929 wrote:
What than is your argument when guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Mine argument is: the killer is guilty and immoral.

When I enjoin to kill him, I am then guilty and immoral.

Let it be him.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 08:57 pm
Nicely put Lash. My sentiments exactly.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:22 pm
Lash wrote:
RL--

Stop approving killing. K?


I oppose abortion.

Do you?

How many are put to death due to capital punishment vs. how many are aborted each year?

Care to compare?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:26 pm
They are two different issues. An embryo committed no crimes, and isn't even considered a human.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:27 pm
echi wrote:
real life wrote:
echi wrote:
real life:
"The innocent shouldn't suffer the death penalty."


Do you accept that innocent people are sometimes put to death?
(I'm referring to CP, of course.)


Yes, and the innocent are sometimes imprisoned as well. But we don't argue for the abolition of prison on the basis of such mistakes.
What's your point? We're not discussing the abolition of prison.

Quote:
Innocent people are shot and killed by police accidentally when a warrant is served on the wrong address, or the wrong car is pulled over and the driver panics.

But we don't argue for the abolition of warrants, or the abolition of police stops on the basis of these mistakes.
What is the relavence? We are not discussing the abolition of warrants or the abolition of police stops.

Quote:
We demand , rightly so, that correct procedures be followed and proper safeguards in place.
God damn, that's an evil sounding sentence.

Quote:
As long as you rely on humans to work in law enforcement, human errors will be made, however.
That's cold, man.


Cold? Me?

I'm telling you the truth. You can't handle the truth.

Police kill innocent people all the time by accident.

We don't call for an abolition of police forces. We recognize that a mistake was made and work on correcting it.

We don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

To say that capital punishment should be ended because mistakes have been made is misguided and will cause more problems than it solves.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:30 pm
We have no capital punishment in my country, and our crime rates are waaaay lower than the USA. What problems are you refering to?
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:04 am
Are you claiming there is a causal relationship ( i.e . crime rates are low in Australia BECAUSE there is no capital punishment) ?

Or do you agree that there is NO causal relationship (i.e. crime rates in Australia are unaffected by whether there is capital punishment or not)

If the latter is true, do you also agree that it is true in the USA?

If it is true in the USA, exactly what is your point?

By your logic, abolition of capital punishment in the USA will NOT help our crime rate go down, so what benefit are you trying to tell us there is in following your example?
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:08 am
real life, I'm asking about your statement "will cause more problems than it solves".

What problems?
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:10 am
Eorl wrote:
We have no capital punishment in my country, and our crime rates are waaaay lower than the USA.


A fine example of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:10 am
Would criminals committing crimes fit the definition of 'more problems' for you?
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