What's the next step?

Don't french kiss her right off the bat, Jesus.

But do lean over when you talking, and give her a nice gentle 2 second kiss on the lips.

Then, as you're separating and leaning back, start a low, deep "mmmmmmm" in your throat, just to let her know how nice you thought that was.

If the girl was me, the soft growl (not overdone!) would get me as much as, if not more than the kiss.

As you walk down the street after your next date ASK "I feel like I should hold your hand, would you like that?"

At her door ASK "May I kiss you goodnight" (Dont do the growl thing, she'll think your weird unless its done just right) (Barking might be worth a try )

The upshot is if she says no you know where you stand. If she says yes you know where you stand.

well....you could be right about the growl....that does take practice. I remember my now husband giving me a first hug way back when and he involuntarily did this little growl when he squeezed me. Got the message across loud and clear, I melted and the rest is history. Then again, he was experienced.

That's why I was leaning toward a light, gentle 2 second kiss.

I'm looking at it from this old girls perspective I guess.

By the now 4th date, I'd be wondering where this is going, and thinking maybe HE doesn't like me in that way. I wouldn't have gone out with him so many times if I didn't like him, but might be too shy to make the first move.

As far as the asking for permission thing. Yes, that's all well and good on paper, but 2 things....

If I didn't want to hold hands, and a guy asked me out of the blue, I'd either say "yeah, sure" out of surprise, then regretting it, and then feeling all weird about it if I really didn't want to, or if I did say know, I'd feel all weird about it, since it was all out in the open, in words, that I didn't like him enough to hold hands. The rest of the evening would be ackward.

I light kiss (OK, without the growl) toward the end of the evening...no big deal, just a kiss, do it and go back to what you were doing....but it's an ice breaker.

As far as asking for permission, I don't think a peck on the lips warrants that, it's not sex, or anything really heavy. In terms of romance, and wooing/courting, the first step doesn't necessarily have to be so "PC"

Re the hand holding, this is just me, but I'd go for the kiss first, and leave the hand holding for the next time, after a couple of more kisses down the line.

From one kiss, you might get the message, she NOT interested, but you haven't invested that much, just a peck. Hand holding....argh....even if I liked the guy, I'd be kinda uncomfortable with that. That's something that will go on long enough that if I wasn't interested would be really weird.

One quick little kiss isn't date rape, I don't think official permission needed.

You know, to this day my husband slips into this thing of asking me "would you like.....?" Which is very good and respectfull and all that, but sometimes, I'll say to him..."You don't always have to ASK you know. Jump in there and surprise me!"

Just don't french kiss her right off the bat.

Would not recommend the growling either, I (being the woman) would probably start laughing and think that guy was VERY weird!

Starting with holding her hand is probably not a bad idea.
It's not too intrusive, and you'll probably see straight away, how she reacts.

I went out with a friend once for a few glasses of wine and on the way back he put his hand around me.
I was quite unprepared for that, and asked him, if he was too drunk, to be walking on his own.
I don't think he was too offended, today he is married with two children, but we still speak!

ok ok growling bad idea for the kid here

However, in defense, perhaps growl was the wrong word, what I meant more is one of those low pitched 1 and a half second, only audible to the other persons ear (and barely audible at that) that indicated pure pleasure at having a beautiful woman within reach.

It wasn't a dog growling at the postman for heavens sake, it was a low involuntary expression of desire, and extremely sexy. I don't melt very easily.


Anyway, still not getting the hand holding concept...if she doesn't want to hold hands, now she's stuck with someone holding her hand, time dragging, thinking...."ok, how can I disengage this guys hand from mine without hurting his feelings"

To me, hand holding is really personal, for when you know someone really well. It's way intimate.

A little kiss? Well, as the song goes...

You must remember this....
A kiss is just a kiss
A sigh is just a sigh....

It's a quick, one second way to check the waters....you can be having a conversation, lean in, lean out, continue talking like nothing just happened....gaging the response.....

I've done it myself plenty of times....you're walking down the street. Stop at a light....just has the light changes to green, you give the guy a quick kiss....then just start crossing the street like nothing has happened.

That leaves the other person with the options of either pretending nothing happened, being delighted, or giving them pause to consider.

Anyway...for me, I'm not in favor of holding hands...takes to long, potentially really bad.

Did I scare everyone off?

I think it was all that growling.

Chai, I get the growl! He has to know what he is doing and be confident about it, but it can be incredibly sexy. Deep man-pleasure-sounds.

But yeah..don't try to growl. :wink:

Instead of holding hands, try touching her often in a casual way. Things like - if you are standing in line, lightly touch her back.
If you are eating, lean in close and share.

Just find excuses to be close to her and touch her. Then, when it feels right, give her a light kiss.

Maybe she is shy. If so, it just means a longer warming up period.

Have fun.

Deep man pleasure sounds..........mmmmmrrrrrrrmmmmm......



excuse me, I need to go see if my husband is busy......

can i tell her that i love her and want a serious and long-lasting relationship?
i want to let her know that i'm not a serial dater and am looking for something more tham just dating.

[quote="heartofthesun"][quote="Chai Tea"][quote="Bohne"]

Anyway...for me, I'm not in favor of holding hands...takes to long, potentially really bad.[/quote]

HAHA! right on, bro! and, the next thing you know, your hands are sweaty from the anticipation of grabbing the right moment to disengage. do you disentangle to wipe your forehead, pick your nose to turn him off completely, point at something imaginary...ah, the torture. do NOT hold somebody's hand unless you are sleeping with them.

a gentle hand on the back is quite another thing, though. well placed, it can be very powerful.[/quote][/quote]


Certainly did not write that!
I would never spell favour without a 'u'

Well sure, if you want to scare her off permanently.

Don't you think that's a pretty heavy thing to lay on someone you haven't even had a date with yet?

I have met (dated) her 4 times Chai Tea

May I ask what country you are from, tomyyy? I am in the USA, and your culture may be quite different from mine.

Telling someone you love them after dating only 4 times would scare the living daylights out of someone here.

oh, I guess I'm behind. I thought you were still at the stage of figuring out how to give her a kiss.

Where is your relationship now?

I don't want you to think I'm comparing you to the person in this story, but, to give you some idea how women might see this....

In my mid 20's I was living with my then BF (same age as me). His brother "Joe", maybe 3 or so years younger, came to visit for maybe a week. My BF was the manager of a movie theater, and on Saturday nights he would play movies after hours for the workers, they'd drink beer and relax watching movies. That Saturday night Joe was there and apparantly got quite smitten with one of the girls who worked there. I doubt they had sex, but I guess there was some major making out during the movies. I didn't know this girl, but my BF said she was a nice kid (he was pretty protective of the girls there actually), she just got a little drunk.

Anyway, Sunday morning comes and Joe is going on about how much he cares about this girl, and how he's thinking of moving here....you get the point. He had asked her to come over at noon and they were going on a picknick or something.

I knew he was WAY out of the realm of reality, and wanted to hang around to see if I was needed in anyway. I was.

I was sitting outside reading the Sunday paper, when the girl shows up. You could tell by her face she was regreting her decision in the cold, sober light of day. Since I didn't really know her, I just asked (we were alone) "Is everything OK?"

She said something to the effect of "Oh God, he's called me twice this morning, and has all day and tomorrow planned out and how he wants to be with me and everything."

That's when he came outside and grabbed her up in an embrace, trying to kiss her, while she's looking over her shoulder at me with this desparate look, like "SAVE ME!!"

I forget the whole chain of events, but she ended up going home alone shortly afterwards, and he was stricken that last night didn't mean they were going to be together "forever"


Again, I'm not saying at all you've done that, but if you've gone out 4 times, I don't think she's concerned whether you're a serial dater or not.

You haven't said....How is she reacting to you so far? What kind of signals is she giving to you? She's the other half of the equation you know, and has a say in all this.

that was an interesting read, CT.

may very well be the case, here too.

playing with dignity under all circumstances is always the ticket...IMO