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Relationships in cyberspace

 
 
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 01:44 am
I felt somewhat frustraited tonight about communicating on the grand ole WWW. My mind was exploring both communication and the relationships that result. I write a lot of notes like this to myself and I thought, "What the hell, post it."

I'd like to hear some other opinions concerning web relationships.

CYBER FRIENDS AND BOILED CHICKEN

I write this with thoughts of the possibility that it may well offend. Only thoughts not fear. For a good number of years I have conversed with a good number of people over the great cyber friend?s network. I have gotten to know many by their words alone and have some feel as to what they like and dislike and what sorts of thoughts they may entertain and, to some extent, what provides enjoyment in their lives. To some end, this has brought me a great deal of enjoyment. It does have its shortcomings.

I am a person who has grown up and, to some extent, fashioned my relationships in a visual world. I didn?t really grow up as a child; it was more a period of survival. Without parental guidance I was self-taught. I observed my environment and responded to those things I observed. I was the street urchin. I watched and worked people. I knew their desires because I saw them in their eyes and actions. From a good distance away, I could predict, with reasonable accuracy, the intentions or mood of an approaching person. When I spoke, I could perceive the slightest twinge of displeasure in the person to whom I was talking and immediately compensate by nudging the conversation in a different direction or by simply altering my tone of voice to suit their response. Little escaped my eyes and my responses were immediate and immaculate. To that extent, I was dangerous. Not only did I know how to please, I could see in an instant where to drive the dagger should I spot a soft point of weakness. Always, I watched the eyes and movements of others. I was not a social serpent lying in wait for some unwary soul. No, I was a child who sought to please. I was a child who understood quite well that if others were smiling it would be difficult for them to admonish me with any great wrath or harm. I knew because I say. My eyes were my salvation.

I am much older now, yet I still observe people. I watch them as they eat in restaurants, as they interact with their children, as they struggle for power in business meetings and any other venue that is offered me. My ability to see has served me well as an adolescent psychologist, as a treatment manager in a juvenile detention facility and as a senior manager. Seldom have I dealt with personal issues over the telephone. Seldom, if ever, did I write a memo that addressed any personnel issue. I detest phones. They restrict my vision. I only see honesty in a persons eyes and posture. I only communicate well through pairing my words with expressions and the laughter or hostility seen in my eyes. During rare, occasional phone calls from my father he said he loved me and that he would come to see me. He never did. Had I seen his eyes, I would have known better.

Tonight I felt one of those lost moments. jjorge wrote a simple but beautiful piece on the Original Writing forum. I was really touched by its? simplicity and depth. I told him how much I enjoyed it yet, my words felt empty and deficient. It felt flat like the taste of overcooked boiled chicken. And herein lies the thought of this piece. I try very hard to develop some deeper relationships with many of the people I chat with online. I try to discern their true emotions, the depths of their feelings and all the other qualities that accompany relationships with others. In most instances I fail. It is not a situation in which I feel no bonding or kinship, it simply lacks the attributes that have sustained me for so long; touch and vision. There have been pronouncements of the passing of members of the Abuzz community and there was nothing in my fingers that could address the intense remorse I felt at those moments. There have been moments of achievement and obstacles that have been overcome and J has been such a limp expression of the joy I felt or reflection of the smile on my face. At the same time I must admit to moments of dishonesty. Not in an untruth being told but in the omission of not saying what I wanted to say or needed to be said. Honest yet unpleasant things need to be said without the limitation of time barriers to response and the support of a calm tone of voice.

And so, there is some level of in borne hatred of this medium that I bear. A certain level of distrust and a subtle imposition of hesitancy that I feel. But, despite these thoughts, I continue to converse. I continue to think and feel openly and in written form. Because, in the end, even stilted intercourse among companions staves off the loneliness of a singular existence.

Think this is the link to jjorge?s piece. (hope that's right)

Original Writing
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jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 04:00 pm
Morganwood

A thought-provoking essay.
My A2K friendships have come to mean a GREAT deal to me but I too crave the missing dimension of eye-to-eye contact.

Happily, I have been able to meet A2K people. first, my friend Piffka when I was briefly in Seattle last year and then a whole passel (sp?) of others in a January Boston meeting. In fact there will be another Boston get-together next week that I am looking forward to attending.

Indeed, the proliferation of such A2K meetings past and planned reveals how widespread is our wish to know each other.

P.S. thanks for your kind words about my little painful poem.
Writing and sharing it has been very cathartic for me.
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chatoyant
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 04:53 pm
morganwood, I feel very much the same way, although I'm sure I wouldn't be able to put it in words in the powerful way you do.

I've had a number of friendships over the internet. I chat with a group of friends around my age almost every night. There is one man who has been very special to me for over a year now. A couple of weeks ago, I said or did something in the chat room that he misconstrued. No amount of writing back and forth or even talking on the phone can convince him of my true intentions during that incident. We're still friends, but I've finally given up on us being especially close any more. I really do believe if the incident had happened in a room full of people - in real life - he wouldn't have given it a second thought.

However, I feel like I have a bond with most of the regulars in that room, so I keep going back, even though I wish I would lose the desire to. I will never get that close to a man over the internet again. Misunderstandings happen so easily and they're so difficult to resolve.

By the way, I'd seen jjorge's poem before I read this, and I've responded to it already. I do feel like my words there were inadequate, but had read some of his other poems and really did want to respond.

Oh, what a tangled worldwideweb we weave ........
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morganwood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 06:04 pm
I was on Abuzz for a long, long time and posted a great deal. In reference to your note jjorge, I had a long running thread that was spawned by a serious period of clinical depression I was going through. I was nice all the time and I'm not nice all the time. I do feel that I'm pleasant and kind but grew to dislike the mantle. Iam just now getting back into posting on the web. I'm trying to go slowly and limit the amount of time I wander around this site. I like about2know. I find a little more openess here without the flaming that occured so often on Abuzz. I try to read a little more each time I log on in hopes of getting to know others. Sadly, I fear that few mwmbers reside near my small town near Knoxville, TN.

Thank you both for your time in responding to my piece.
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Rae
 
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Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 06:37 pm
morganwood ~ next time I'm in Tennessee, I'd love to meet ya! (I have family in Murfreesboro, Old Hickory and Antioch.)
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 07:36 pm
Hey morganwood, I have family in Oak Ridge. That anywhere near you?

I've been to a number of gatherings (heck, I've been meeting online people since, gulp, 1998 or so, long before Abuzz existed). It does help to see people although I think the phone is helpful as well. We all try to get our feelings across and subtleties and nuances and ASCII just isn't that good for those kinds of expressions. There's definitely an effort made here to be more clear in terms of communications, with emoticons and font formatting (I think being able to bold text is extremely helpful, etc.). It puts some seasoning on that boiled chicken. :-D

PS jjorge - for this coming gathering, can we sit near each other? I didn't get a chance to talk to you too much at the last one, and I'd love to be able to do so. :-D
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jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 08:54 pm
jespah wrote:
...PS jjorge - for this coming gathering, can we sit near each other? I didn't get a chance to talk to you too much at the last one, and I'd love to be able to do so. :-D


I'd like that Jes. Save me a seat if you get there first and I'll do likewise.


PS
Morganwood. I've only been to Tennessee once but I liked it very much. My late fiancee and I traveled over much of it -ie. Nashville, Franklin, Memphis, Chatanooga. We visited numerous civil war battlefields, went to the Grand Old Opry etc. didn't get as far East as Knoxville though. Maybe next time.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 08:55 pm
Interesting topic.

There is something very fascinating - almost habit-forming - about internet relationships, I think, at least at first.

Such a wonder it was for me to find that I could feel real warmth for people I knew only through a screen - and people from all over the world! This was emphasised for me by the fact that it occurred in my normal "down-time" - that is after work, and often late at night, which is my real awake time, but one that is no longer shared by irl friends, because we all work so hard, and do not generally gather any more on week nights, and, in fact, gather very much less generally than at any other time in our lives - sigh - I hate the way work stuffs up one's life when one no longer has the stamina to go for days without sleep! For years, most of my socialising occurred after midnight, and I really miss that!

It was also fun because it was separate from my real life networks - and I could be completely independent from the kind of scrutiny that one's real-life, long-term friends, give. It is fun to have a sort of secret life, and it encourages faster and mor eopen sharing than is common in real life meetings, I think...

I still enjoy net friendships a lot, but probably not as much, generally, as I did when they were new. If I could get to gatherings it would probably be more intense again.

I have one especially close net friend - and I was thinking the other day about what that closeness and liking was about. I fight more with this person than I have with anyone else, which is interesting - and I was thinking that one probably converses more intensely than is general with real life people, if one has known them for a long time - but there is, for me, something about this cyber-closeness that is very immediate - it feels as though this person is right in my mind - and I think this is partly an artifact of the means of communication, without any physical distractions, except sound of voice, sometimes. Perhaps, though, it is simply the strength of his personality that has this effect. I do not know. Anyway, I value this friendship very greatly - as I do some other cyber friendships - but I feel no particular impulsion to meet irl, as I do feel more impulsion to do with other cyber friendships.

I suspect this whole distance relationship thing is by no means as new as we think it is - think of how people used to communicate very fully by letter - and how relationships would form of great intensity and duration - sometimes without people ever meeting each other. Certainly, epistolary attachments and romances formed - and it was considered unwise for young ladies to communicate much by letter to males, except relatives, or established fiancees! Of course, there was no immediacy to responses as there is, sometimes, for us - though not always.
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Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:14 pm
I think relationships in cyberspace have a better chance at survival simply because we're not influenced by external appearances and can get to know people from the inside out as opposed to the outside in.

I've made many friends in cyberspace, and have met some of them. The same feelings existed after we met in real life.

I don't see any difference in meeting in cyberspace than in real life, except you may have to wait to see the color of their eyes.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:24 pm
I've had the same experience, Misti. I've met quite a few people, who were online acquaintances initially. I've only been surprised by one - and I liked that person much more in person than I did online. The others have been very much who they are online - and the ones I liked I now adore, the ones that I was a bit tepid about, I'm still tepid about.
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Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:33 pm
I know what you mean ehBeth!

There was one person who surprised me, and that was Phoenix! I liked her much more in person than online, because she was so much more fun and unleashed in real life.

I just love her!
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Rae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:35 pm
Me, too!

Phoenix is awesome! Love her to bits!
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Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:45 pm
I miss Phoenix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:46 pm
I MISS PHOENIX MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 10:11 pm
I hear yah! Yah just never know!

The funny thing was about our Florida Gathering ... I just KNEW I was gonna love all of them, there was never a question about it! And I did!
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morganwood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 02:06 pm
Well, hell. I went back to page one and lost my whole reply. Also I didn't realize that I had to opt to watch a topic if I was the initial poster.

Let's see. Rae, I lived in Murfreesbors for 6 years. I went to MTSU for mu under gard and grad work. I loved the town. Now Nisson is there and there is no charm left.

Jespah, I'm about 90 min from Oak Ridge. I live in New Market which is east of Knox on Andrew Jackson Hwy

ebeth and Misti, you probably are more trusting than I. We've chatted for about 3 years now and I'm sure we would enjoy each others company if we met but, you are still not flesh and blood friends.

dlowan, I also have a long and enduring friendship with a man in Cookville, TH. Actually there is a trio of us. When we get together, my wife leaves because we argue to the point of "Slap leather you no-count low-down dog!" Are arguements are an ingrained part of our relationship and anything is fair game. I enjoy reading old letters from around 1800+. I think that now we have traded the quality of those older postings for quanity at presant.

I appreciate the comments and, again I'm sorry for the delay in my responses. If we were face to face you could have slapped me "Upside the head" and yelled "You listening boy". I would have responded sooner!

Oak Ridge, we'll have to have lunch somwe time!!!
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 03:50 pm
Morganwood
We have also chatted at times over the past 3 years or so and it's always a pleasure to see you. I truly enjoy reading everything and anything you have to say.

I changed my user name awhile back, but you'll remember me as Gezzy ;-)
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 05:09 pm
LOL
trusting? me?

morganwood, part of my job involves fraud investigations. I trust no one.
I often say that I assume everyone is posting from prison unless, and until, they can prove otherwise.

The prisoners I've met (kidding, of course), have been charming, not as pale as I expected them to be, crazy for books, and TALKERS!
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 05:14 pm
LOL Beth!
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 05:15 pm
There's another little twist on this internet 'thing' that I love. That is, getting back in touch with friends that have slipped and slid away while we were busy.

Got an email from my best friend from high school on Tuesday. We'd been in touch until about a year ago and then oops, someone missed a beat.

I called her home, and spoke to her husband, who I've known since Grade 1. She called me back - we spoke for an hour - it was like being 15 again. We're making plans to get together for our usual fall fair trip with her kids in 2 months. We're back on track - thanks in some part to the net.

I've e-mailed with cousins in Europe who I haven't seen in 20+ years. Friends of my dad who I haven't seen in 30+ years. It's been a blessing.
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