When Shutting Up isn't Cowardice

So they have paid a heavy price for their principles then?

They are guilty of lying people into a war that has taken many innocent lives, and making money off of it. If that's principles, screw principles.

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It was voted for Ed. By your neighbours if not yourself.

Are you saying that the "by the people and for the people" part of the basic principle is not operative anymore?

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It was railroaded in.

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Do you mean that the people were conned.

That would suggest that they are unfit to govern themselves surely?

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There were millions of people who weren't conned. They voiced opposition, but Bush had his way.

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Come on Ed.

The Government had its way. Who else do you want to have their way?

There are "oppositions" all over the place. There's a Devil's Party. Pacifists think the military should be disbanded don't they.

It's easy being the opposition because they don't have to actually do anything.

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Pure pacifists want the army disbanded, perhaps. I can't answer for them. They are not in force enough to set policies and change elections. I am speaking of ordinary folk, of which I count myself.

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So am I Ed.

The voters. The voice of the people. And their representitives.

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I am also speaking of loaded Supreme Courts, and stolen elections, not to mention a press giving out headlines meant to stampede the populace in a given direction, for starters.

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I don't know about those things except that they did form a part of the debate that went on at some heat. I'm sure the ordinary voter was quite aware of them in varying degrees and the representitives would certainly have been.

It looked at the time to be a very democratic set of decisions. No stone was left unturned.

I don't remember anybody believing that Saddam Hussein had WMDs.

Should he be stopped was the real question and if the answer was Yes! then the earlier the better.

Any incompetence is another matter.

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spendius wrote:

I don't remember anybody believing that Saddam Hussein had WMDs.

You should check your memory and look at some opinion polls from the time. Hell, a majority of Americans even believed Saddam had been involved in 9/11.

Even now, people - otherwise reasonable people (multiple examples here on A2K too) - try to rationalise their then-support for the war by claiming that at the time, "everyone believed Iraq had WMD." Not.

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I take opinion polls with a pinch of whatsit.

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nimh, We missed you! Somebody changed our hotel from the Sofitel to the Marriott - only about one block away by the river. I had raception call the Sofitel to let them know about the change, and I also went to the Sofitel reception to tell them we were staying at the Marriott. Since there was no message, I presumed you didn't want to meet. T.

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Spendius wrote:

Quote:

I don't remember anybody believing that Saddam Hussein had WMDs.

I don't remember a lot of the '60s, but there are very good reasons for that, not at of them self-induced. What were you in some kind of coma?

Joe(Don was on Meet the Press saying 'We know where they are.')Nation

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old europe wrote:

Install the Greasemonkey extension from the Firefox add-ons website.
(Greasemonkey allows to customize websites via scripts - more info on Wikipedia)

Restart your Firefox. You should see a little monkey in the bottom right corner of your browser....!

Thanks again for the Greasemonkey, OE. It's been lovely to work with.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

nimh, We missed you! Somebody changed our hotel from the Sofitel to the Marriott - only about one block away by the river. I had raception call the Sofitel to let them know about the change, and I also went to the Sofitel reception to tell them we were staying at the Marriott. Since there was no message, I presumed you didn't want to meet. T.

Hey c.i., I went to the Sofitel to leave you a message about where/when to meet on Friday night like youd suggested, but they wouldnt take any, because they didnt have your name anywhere. I did send you an email the same night tho.

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nimh wrote:

spendius wrote:
I don't remember anybody believing that Saddam Hussein had WMDs.

You should check your memory and look at some opinion polls from the time. Hell, a majority of Americans even believed Saddam had been involved in 9/11.

Even now, people - otherwise reasonable people (multiple examples here on A2K too) - try to rationalise their then-support for the war by claiming that at the time, "everyone believed Iraq had WMD." Not.

The REAL nuts say he has 'em, and hid 'em.

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I suppose a definition of a WMD is in order.

I was assuming people in this discussion were referring to nukes. I was confident Saddam had none of them. And I'm sure the authorities were as well.

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I am losing all respect for you, not that that matters.

Joe(try to focus, or stop and go shopping)Nation

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Apparently, the term "yellow cake" never rose above that member's event horizon.

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When Shutting Up isn't Cowardice

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