Any serious Christians left?

Arella Mae wrote:

Perhaps you misunderstood Echi. I voted no. I voted no for videopoker and I voted no on every gambling ballot that came up that we had a vote in. That is my RIGHT. The one you seem to want to take away from me just by telling me I am wrong (if that is what you are saying, that is. :wink: )

That's silly. I said nothing about taking away any of your rights.
I am pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. Here it is, again:

Casino gambling in no way infringes upon your rights.

You see a correlation between casino gambling and an increase in crime.

You incorrectly assume that casino gambling is the cause of this increase.

Your solution is to prohibit casino gambling, imposing your views on others by taking away this right.

Now, can you spot the flaw?

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echi wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
Perhaps you misunderstood Echi. I voted no. I voted no for videopoker and I voted no on every gambling ballot that came up that we had a vote in. That is my RIGHT. The one you seem to want to take away from me just by telling me I am wrong (if that is what you are saying, that is. :wink: )

That's silly. I said nothing about taking away any of your rights.
I am pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. Here it is, again:

Casino gambling in no way infringes upon your rights.

You see a correlation between casino gambling and an increase in crime.

You incorrectly assume that casino gambling is the cause of this increase.

Your solution is to prohibit casino gambling, imposing your views on others by taking away this right.

Now, can you spot the flaw?

I am going to try this one more time out of respect for you, Echi.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE DEFINITE AND COMPLETE CAUSE OF THE INCREASE! GEESH! (Caps for emphasis only Razz

)

However, I do feel that it is at least partly to blame for the increase. You can't seriously tell me that NONE of these crimes were committed so someone could get money for gambling. I am sure I can find you proof if that is what you require.

I have a right to NOT WANT or WANT certain things in my community, just as you and others have a right to want or not want those same things. Now, since it is OBVIOUSLY impossible to say whose right should supercede the others', we have a voting process. It's the fair and LEGAL way.

I think the difference here is I am adhering to the law here, Echi. The law states we have these exact same rights. I think maybe you are talking morally and like I said, that is subjective.

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Okay, everyone has the right to make judgements upon others and vote their opinion of how that life oughta be conducted. Does that still hold true when the judgement is being made upon ourselves and our own life?

Does that also give us rights to pass laws that force others to conform to that majority's opinion? Do they still have that right when we're in the minority?

Why must there always be exceptions made for different segments of society? What happened to "All wo/men are created equal?" Is it not so because it is not written as such as a god's law in the bible?

And, what about the golden rule? That is in the bible. Does this apply to all humans, not merely to fellow believers.

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.
"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.

The gist of it all comes down to how you answer this: Do beliefs require action? Do actions require belief?

We better figure out how both ends of the spectrum can live together. This country is in a heap of trouble if that is how we are going to govern ourselves. We'll be stuck in a circular loop, constantly bickering over popular opinion and the laws required to force the minority to conform with the majority's rule and then changing that rule every month when a new flavor fad rolls into town.

Quote:

Do not imagine, comrades, that leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be? - Squealer of Animal Farm

Quote:

ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

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maporsche et al, There are those in this country who doesn't have any idea about our Constitution or Bill of Rights to ensure equality and the pursuit of happiness. When they get a little power (to vote), they think taking away the rights of others is based on their "conscience." It doesn't matter that other people's pursuit of happiness doesn't affect them in any way - except their "conscience." America is great, isn't it?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

maporsche et al, There are those in this country who doesn't have any idea about our Constitution or Bill of Rights to ensure equality and the pursuit of happiness. When they get a little power (to vote), they think taking away the rights of others is based on their "conscience." It doesn't matter that other people's pursuit of happiness doesn't affect them in any way - except their "conscience." America is great, isn't it?

You got that right, CI.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

maporsche et al, There are those in this country who doesn't have any idea about our Constitution or Bill of Rights to ensure equality and the pursuit of happiness. When they get a little power (to vote), they think taking away the rights of others is based on their "conscience." It doesn't matter that other people's pursuit of happiness doesn't affect them in any way - except their "conscience." America is great, isn't it?

Perhaps you should reconsider that statement CI? I said it does AFFECT me but I said that the effect is subjective to my life. You, and others, of course, do not agree that some of these things affect your life and that is perfectly fine, but you have absolutely no authority, right, etc., to tell me if and how something affects my life. Just because it may not affect your life, that certainly in no way means it doesn't affect mine and vice versa.

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Wrong. A fact is a fact. Either it does affect your life or it doesn't.

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Arella Mae wrote:

echi wrote:
Arella Mae wrote:
Perhaps you misunderstood Echi. I voted no. I voted no for videopoker and I voted no on every gambling ballot that came up that we had a vote in. That is my RIGHT. The one you seem to want to take away from me just by telling me I am wrong (if that is what you are saying, that is. :wink: )

That's silly. I said nothing about taking away any of your rights.
I am pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. Here it is, again:

Casino gambling in no way infringes upon your rights.

You see a correlation between casino gambling and an increase in crime.

You incorrectly assume that casino gambling is the cause of this increase.

Your solution is to prohibit casino gambling, imposing your views on others by taking away this right.

Now, can you spot the flaw?

I am going to try this one more time out of respect for you, Echi.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE DEFINITE AND COMPLETE CAUSE OF THE INCREASE! GEESH! (Caps for emphasis only )

Oh, cool off, already. We're just having a conversation. It isn't like I'm all up in your face, or anything.

Quote:

However, I do feel that it is at least partly to blame for the increase. You can't seriously tell me that NONE of these crimes were committed so someone could get money for gambling. I am sure I can find you proof if that is what you require.

Well, yeah. . . of course I require proof. I would have thought that you'd already found your proof before you made up your mind to exercise your legal right to restrict other people's freedoms. I mean, that's a pretty heavy thing to do without even having any kind of evidence, don't you think?

Quote:

I have a right to NOT WANT or WANT certain things in my community, just as you and others have a right to want or not want those same things. Now, since it is OBVIOUSLY impossible to say whose right should supercede the others', we have a voting process. It's the fair and LEGAL way.

I promise I am not seeking to remove your rights, neither am I questioning your right to vote any way you so choose. I have no issue with that, whatsoever. I am simply calling into question the reasoning that you use to form your opinions, your wants. (This is just a friendly chat, we're not in a court.)

Quote:

I think the difference here is I am adhering to the law here, Echi. The law states we have these exact same rights. I think maybe you are talking morally and like I said, that is subjective.

I agree. That is, ultimately, subjective. But objectivity should (I hope) still play a major role in determining how one decides to vote. It is supposedly a serious matter, after all.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOUR VOTE IS RIGHT. (I'm sure you will agree.)

Now. . . You said you could find me some proof??

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AM wrote:
Perhaps you should reconsider that statement CI? I said it does AFFECT me but I said that the effect is subjective to my life. You, and others, of course, do not agree that some of these things affect your life and that is perfectly fine, but you have absolutely no authority, right, etc., to tell me if and how something affects my life. Just because it may not affect your life, that certainly in no way means it doesn't affect mine and vice versa.

By all means, please tell us how your vote to restrict other people's pursuit of happiness affects you - subjectively? B]

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snood wrote:

Hey holmes, whatever happened to "putting away the sticks"?

Straw man, snood - first, I never said anything about putting the sticks away, just offered a reminder to use 'em with care, second, the post to which I assume you refer offered simple observation of fact.

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Arella Mae wrote:

My thoughts exactly Snood. That bump on my forehead just keeps getting bigger!

I know the feeling. :wink:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1523915#1523915

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Lash wrote:

Wrong. A fact is a fact. Either it does affect your life or it doesn't.

FACT: It affects my life.

So, does that mean it affects yours? Does it affect yours in the same way?

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mesquite wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
My thoughts exactly Snood. That bump on my forehead just keeps getting bigger!

I know the feeling. :wink:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1523915#1523915

Now who is showing a superior attitude, Mesquite? Just because I disagree with you does not mean I have no logic or reasoning. Why can't you just accept I believe differently on issues than you do? I accept that you believe differently and just leave it at that. What is so hard about that?

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Arella Mae wrote:

Lash wrote:
Wrong. A fact is a fact. Either it does affect your life or it doesn't.

FACT: It affects my life.

If it does, there would be no argument. So, prove how it does and end the bullshit.

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Arella Mae wrote:

I am sure I can find you proof if that is what you require.

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echi wrote:

Now. . . You said you could find me some proof??

How are you doing with that proof thing, Arella Mae?

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How about addressing the questions I posed in my last post...

I know it is much easier to continue this thumb war. If you'd rather do that, just say so and I will start ignoring this thread and move on to something else.

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Lash wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
Lash wrote:
Wrong. A fact is a fact. Either it does affect your life or it doesn't.

FACT: It affects my life.

If it does, there would be no argument. So, prove how it does and end the bullshit.

It affects my life. MY life. I don't know if it affects yours or not. I don't tell you how to believe and I don't tell you how to vote and that you would be wrong for your vote whatever that vote would be. Since we have opposing views on this, I highly doubt anything I would tell you about how it affects my life would be accepted. I have tried to explain this before and well, I'm sure we all know how that went over. Rolling Eyes

I ended up being called all kinds of names just because I view things differently than you and others. I don't care to beat that horse anymore. And, I'm done with this subject also. I've explained myself over and over and to the best of my ability. If it is not good enough for you or anyone else, oh well....................... Rolling Eyes

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Not reading back too far, I hate to disturb my own peace - just posting to say that I can understand gambling can be addictive and that addicts can self destruct their lives. I personally have spent something like seven dollars gambling in Vegas, that little despite many times passing through, because I really can't afford to lose, or if I could, I chose to buy something else with my money. Different strokes for folks.

I've railed (or semi railed) on a2k about the Faux Bellagio, for example, that being a tangent to the question of gambling per se but not by so much. However cheesy I might find various places at whatever their cost, I also sometimes like them a lot, in part for the over the top extravaganza of it all. Did a series of photos of Vegas neon once..

Just because some can make gambling a reason for living and ruin much of the structure of their lives gives no one a right to forbid others from occasional fun.

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ehBeth wrote:

echi wrote:
Now. . . You said you could find me some proof??

How are you doing with that proof thing, Arella Mae?

I'm sorry, I didn't see where you requested proof.

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Any serious Christians left?

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