What if they lose?????

By speaking seriously only to themselves, shoring each other up by assuring each other that they're geniuses, and shouting down any conflicting ideas, they have once again arrived at the delusion that they will win in a landslide. If they don't, they'll explain it by saying that (a) the Republicans were more effective at getting their message accross, and (b) the election was stolen from them by fraud.

Well, we should expect some Democratic gains in the Congress. Thats entirely normal in lame duck administrations. I believe there has been some shift away from this administrations foreign policies, and that too will aid the Democratic effort to seize Congressional power. The Democrats are perfectly capable of blowing their chance here, if the Democratic/liberal posts we see here represents the political line taken by their candidates.

What if the Democrats come a cropper? Well, their past behavior gives us some clues:

* "The election was rigged"
* "The radical Christians put their religious mania above world peace"
* "The People were too stupid to realize the Republicans are evil"
* "The Democratic candidates who lost failed to campaign hard enough against the Bush conspiracy"

Those seem to be the top three excuses so popular with the Democratic Party over the last decade.

"The election was rigged" again.

Powerful Government Accountability Office report confirms key 2004 stolen election findings
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
October 26, 2005

As a legal noose appears to be tightening around the Bush/Cheney/Rove inner circle, a shocking government report shows the floor under the legitimacy of their alleged election to the White House is crumbling.

The latest critical confirmation of key indicators that the election of 2004 was stolen comes in an extremely powerful, penetrating report from the Government Accountability Office that has gotten virtually no mainstream media coverage. Click here for GAO Report http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529

See --- Blueflame is already laying the ground work for explaining away losses at the ballot box. If the left-wing of the Democratic Party loses, it can only be because the election was rigged, or the American People are either dupes or evil themselves. Pity the Democratic candidate who loses, because they may very well be torn to bits by their erstwhile supporters.

Elections must be really frustrating to these folks.

Mystery, Brandon and Asherman...

Are you interested in a serious answer from a progressive Democrat, or is this just flame bait?

I can give an interesting and insightful answer from where I sit if any of you are truly interested.

If the dems loose big time, then I imagine things will pretty much stay the same. If dems win big time, then I imagine things will pretty much stay the same unless the ones who win are new and unafraid to be true liberal democrats.

ebrown,

Of course we're interested in hearing what you believe the Democrats and liberals will be saying if they don't do as well as they expect in a few weeks time. "Lay on McDuff"

I'm also interested in hearing your opinion of how a new Democratically controlled Congress will approach several large problems:

* Iraq/Afghanistan
* Iranian nuclear weapons
* DPRK threats to regional stability
* National Debt
* Social Security and Medicare Reform
* National Security
* ???

BTW, I expect better of you than Blueflame and that bunch.

If the GOP loses badly:

* The Party in power typically loses seats during off year elections.
* The losses may represent local political struggles, but may not signal any real change in the fundamental beliefs of the electorate.
* The Foley scandal may smear Republican candidates indiscriminately.
* The GOP failed to do its best to get out the vote.
* The left and anti-Bush propaganda might find enough willing ears to cost Republican candidates needed votes.
* The GOP has gotten out of step with the vast majority of Americans.

All of those are possible reasons that we might lose the mid-term elections. You should note that many of these "reasons" are a matter of perception.

Personally, I expect the Democrats to make gains in both Houses, but still remain a minority Party in the Congress. I don't think this election is a referendum on President Bush, or his policies.

Asherman, see you ignore the GAO report which raises serious questions. The documentation of "fishy" doings in the last 3 elections is far from sour grapes. But of course those who "won" those elections will ignore documentation no matter how well investigated and no matter if it's backed up by the GAO. I see no reason to trust this election judging from recent history. But I do agree with your assessment. The Dems will pick up seats but probably not enough to take either the House or Senate. It's just to hard to pick up that many seats for many reasons. I think you're wrong on the other hand about whether this election will be a referendum on President Bush for many reasons. Americans overwhelmingly say the nation is going in the wrong direction. The war in Iraq is a disaster and the Foley affair has more revelations coming. Maybe enough that Bushie's Christian fundamentalist base will stay home. Should the rumors about Hastert gain momentum and if they prove true anything is liable to happen. Does he engage in hiring male prostitutes? Did his kinkiness lead to a cover-up? There's much more to come in this sleazy story.

First off, Republicans have been talking as if the vast majority of Americans support their policies. This is not true if you realize that Gore won the popular vote (and I am not talking about the controversy, the fact that more Americans voted for Gore than for Bush is indisputed). Kerry didn't lose by very much.

The fact is that we are a very divided nation.

The other fact is that politics is a game-- a very important game, but a game none-the-less. Unfortunately strategy is at least as important as issues. Energizing your base (the people who will vote for you no matter what) has been more important that playing to the middle-- and a lot of the reason that the Republicans have been winning is that they know how to energize their base with simple messages.

I have always said that except for the fact that all Americans should be furious about the electronic voting travesty from Diebold, I have always thought that it is a mistake for Democrats to claim the vote was stolen. This is doubtful and unprovable at any rate.

The Democrats have a comparable base to the Republicans and they have support on many issues. They simply need to figure out how to close the deall.

I think the Democrats are going to win this one if for no other reasons then that the Republicans are giving them ammunition on every issue.

But if they lose again, it is clear that there there are a significant proportion of Americans who want the Democrats to win, and the key is closing the deal.

Of course if something like 60% of Americans vote Republican across the country, I will have to question my analysis... but they Republicans have been winning by very close margins which suggests to me that they are much better at getting the vote out at the last minute when it counts.

What I think the Democratic controlled Congress will do and what they will actually do are unfortunately very different questions. I think the Democratically controlled Congress will be far superior to what we have now.

Foreign policy is largely controlled by the administration. I think there will be great pressure on Bush to prepare for a withdrawral from Iraq. I don't think even a Democratically controlled Congress will have the unity (or the balls) to do what is right in Iraq (i.e. give Iraq back to the Iraqis).

You have DPRK and Iran backwards. It is DPRK who has nuclear weapons and Iran who is destabilizing their region. I think that any Congress will largely leave this to the president. They may put a healthy pressure toward working with other nations.

For national debt... the Republicans have long smeared Democrats with the term "Tax and Spend". Of course "Taxing and Spending" doesn't increase the national debt. The Bush administration unfettered by the Republican congress is using a "Borrow and Spend" policy (which is the best way to increase debt). Democrats have become the party of fiscal responsibility. Either cut spending or stop cutting taxes. Cutting taxes while increasing spending is insane.

You already know my position on National Security. You can have National Security by putting rational measures while not violating the civil rights of Americans. I don't think violations of our core laws and values-- like habeus corpus-- is warranted in spite of the Republican driven hysteria.

A Democratic controlled Congress will also pass a reasonable Immigration Reform bill that contains both border security and compassion for people who are living, working and raising families now.

For the record I don't want impeachment (even though it can be argued it is justified). I do want a return to checks and balances.

I truly hope that you, ebrown, are nearer the center of gravity of the Democratic Party than so many of the posters we see here. Though our positions are at odds, I think we are at least both dealing with the real world instead of some Chicken Little nightmare.

BTW, I'm not so sure our analysis is so very far apart, even though our conclusions represent rather traditional differences in political opinion.

I am hoping when the voters walk into the booth, one big thought will loom large in their mind, that being the future of the Supreme Court, and pull that lever for the Republicans.

Two or three weeks is an eternity before an election. I could be wrong, maybe its just me, but I sense a big change or loss of interest in the Foley issue just in the last day or two, probably because of Korea.

I think I disappoint you Asherman. I am a solid progressive.

I eschew what I consider to be "wacky" parts of the left... from 9/11 conspiracies to leftist protectionism to talks of impeachment.

But I hate the term "center of gravity". The Democrats have been trying to be the centrist party while Bush has been courting is Conservative Christian base from Terry Schiavo to Stem Cells to Flag Burning to an Anti-Gay-Marriage constitutional amendment.

The Democratic "Centrist" strategy has largely failed (with the exception of a very talented Bill Clinton who played it to perfection).

I think it is time for the Democrats to leave the center and stand for real working class, progressive values.

I want a well-defined exit strategy from Iraq that leaves Iraq in the hands of Iraqis within a set period of time (e.g. two years). I want a sane foreign policy that works with other countries. I want there to be enough taxes to support valuable programs without raising debt. I want more investment in Education and Energy and basic Science. I want solid protections for civil rights (especially those in the Constitution) that are guaranteed no matter what the hysteria of the day is. I want the right of homosexuals to marry.

I hate the term "Centrist". My policies are well-reasoned and rational (at least in my mind) but they are not centrist.

I am working very hard to push the Democrats away from the center. I should be the Democrats base and I think they should cater to me. After all the Republicans cater to their base and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much (at least until now).

Good posts, ebrown. I agree down the line. I only hope that more democrats get it together. Despite the encouraging numbers for democrats, I somehow doubt we will win in such numbers that it will actually affect policies in any of the significant ways you mentioned. I hope I am wrong.

Thanks revel. At this point, winning is all that matters.

After the election, we can worry about how to turn any victories into better policy.

But right now, what I really want more than anything is one or two Democratic majorities in Congress.

I think that is very possible.

Re: What if they lose?????

Who says this?


Who says this?


There's no need to speculate. If the GOP maintains control of congress, it will be two more years of more of the same.


I suggest you ask again after the election.

Re: What if they lose?????

That's easy: there's just no point in discussing what you are going to do if the voters decide you can't do anything.


It says maybe they'll win in 2008, maybe not. It's not as if 2006 is the last election, or as if Republicans have a birthright to win forever.