Mel Gibson, holocaust denier.

I've noticed you're something of an insomniac. So am I.

I got back from my mother's house after celebrating Thanksgiving there, and after having indulged in some post dinner inebriants which tend to exacerbate my insomnia, decided to see what was up here on A2K.

I've noticed from other threads here that we share more opinions--like about Angus Young (he's a very, very good rock guitarist) and music (although I can't believe you don't like Rainbow. You really don't like the stuff that Blackmore did with Ronnie James Dio?), and movies (I completely agree with you about Thora Birch, I developed the biggest crush on her after seeing her performance in Ghost World.)--than we differ on.

I have very strong views about religion and politics, as do you, and as does most of the rest of the world, and that's just their nature, they are polemical.

I have absolutely nothing against you personally, or ethnically.

Same here InfraBlue. Yeah, I love Ritchie Blackmore, but I'm not a huge fan of Dio. Maybe that's it. It's a bit of a stressful time for me right now, so I'm not sleeping much, but I work an irregular schedule anyway. Yeah, Ghost World would make my top 10 movie list, and Thora a true cutie! I'm trying to recall the name of something I saw her in recently, but it escapes me right now.

Bottom line: If God is omnipotent, it would have been easy enough for Him to direct activities however He wanted them to go on that infamous day of crucifiction. A Dude who can cause the Red Sea to be parted with a stick could surely have out-done Johnny Cochran and cause a "not guilty" verdict to have been brought in. Don'cha think?

Well, the media coverage wasn't very good or they would have eventually got the story straight?

OK. Large foreign power occupying Mid-Eastern nation. Freedom fighters/terrorists hitting back. Political shenanigans. Religious strife. Well-connected elites on both sides. False imprisonment. Show trials. Capital punishment carried out. Couldn't happen in the 21st Century, could it?

Gibson Snr makes a lot of sense on the holocaust
If you care to do a bit of reading.

Good introduction to revisionism
http://corax.org/revisionism/misc/faq.html

Read some of that info, Paul. It's remarkably slick. If you squint at it just the right way, it almost makes sense. Otherwise, it's just sickening...

Hmmm...well according to CNN the pope saw the movie and his comment was "it is as it was"....so there ya go.

Yeah, and he's in-f@cking-fallible.

"Big message is, the Jews killed our Savior. I'm giving it four and half stars".

Mr Stillwater

You misunderstand my meaning. My comment was in reference to the Catholic mainstream. Ya can't get anymore mainstream than the pope!

As for the message...shouldn't you reserve that judgement AFTER seeing the movie and not before?

Let's just ban the New Testament and be done with it all.

I can't understand either Aramaic or Classical Latin, bit of a drawback in interpreting the movie.

Is it EVER going to be released?

It will be released on Ash Wednesday....February 25th.

http://www.thepassionthemovie.com

And based on the sneak preview I just watched on the web site, there will be subtitles.

There is something else that comes to mind after watching these trailers. How can one human being be so cruel to another? How can hate to that extreme, exist in the hearts of people? I don't understand. And it makes me sadder still to know there are still many cruel hearts out there. How can Kim Chong-Il deny the people of his country so much? How could someone like Saddam Hussein kill so easily and so maliciously? How can people in nations such as Uganda allow the use of children as soldiers? How can ANY nation allow this? How can hate exist to the point where individuals are taught to believe they are righteous in blowing up themselves and their "enemy" as they do in Israel? I will never understand this. People explain their motives and perhaps, in their minds they feel justified, but there is never justification for actions fueled by hatred.

Caprice. Don't want to be mean, but you have pulled together two different thoughts there.

Sure, it's pretty ghastly to think of the pain and suffering that anyone (not just Christ) would have gone through by being crucified, but that was a standard method of execution in those days. The Romans weren't being excessively 'cruel'. As far as they were concerned they had detained a leader of some sort of cult/resistence movement and stopped a possible riot or uprising by doing so (this was a time of internal conflict within Israel, some of it directed at the Roman overlords).

In accordance with directions, let the local law deal with their problems and either release or punish prisoners according to their laws. The Romans didn't worship the same deity as the Jews, so they couldn't be offended by such activity. If the 'crime' had a religious flavour to it, then all the better to let the local priesthood deal with it.

NYT today says that the pope actually said, in Italian, "incredible", with a very possible implication of "not credible" rather than "amazing."

Mr Stillwater

No worries, I know I went off on a bit of a rant there.

Still, even if it was the method of execution back then...could people be so terribly different then as compared to today? Wouldn't anyone have seen it as beyond cruel?

Interesting reply D’artagnan,
Thanks for reading some of the information.

I empathise with you the first time I came across a holocaust revisionist site, I started to feel guilty myself. What if someone found out I was reading this?, I felt like I was looking at disgusting porn. It took me a while to get over my guilt for reading this material. Isn’t this strange when we live in an era where nothing is taboo.
The only explanation to me is that we are “trained” by the media to dismiss any holocaust revisionist historian as evil and sickening and this makes us feel guilty about reading it. This is an effective way of preventing us from realising there is little proof of a holocaust in the death camps.


If I had said that the Japanese didn’t murder millions of Chinese in the Second world war and that the numbers were more like tens of thousands what would you have said?
“What’s your evidence?”, “your opinion goes against the main stream opinion” or “you are clearly wrong”
But you probably wouldn’t have said “its just sickening”.

We live in an era when it is ok to depict Christ as having sex with a prostitute.
So why is it sick to try to establish whether something that happened 60 years ago is true or not? After all if the revisionists are obviously liars then isn’t it best to expose them? Surely we should be able to deal with this in an adult way?

The depiction of holocaust “deniers” in the media is very political. Their position is not depicted accurately in the media, they are often depicted as people who even deny the camps existed. However, the facts support their position much more strongly.

I believe many Jews were killed in the camps and were treated very badly.
However most of the mainstream sources themselves support that tens of thousands of Jews were killed certainly not millions. Many of the prison camp members died from typhus and old age. Disease and starvation took its tool in the camps just as it did in the whole of Germany and Poland.

The official figures for Auschwitz have dropped from 4 million to two million miraculously without any mention in the media. Obviously our media is not telling us everything. This site does a good job of explaining the many special interests groups would have in initiating and maintaining this lie.

I would urge you to compare the official and revisionist sites themselves.
http://www.corax.org/revisionism/
http://corax.org/revisionism/misc/faq.html

The journey to truth is a fascinating and sometimes a little frightening. After all when you have seen that there is very little truth in the official holocaust story you will find it hard to be able to trust able to trust governments, official historical and media sources ever again.

Best Regards,
Paul

Well, Gibson has removed an offending line from the movie taken from Mathew's Gospel, 27:25 ""His blood be on us and on our children."

But he continues to displease some Jewish lobby groups by the things he says.

According to Independent News UK:

Gibson has apparently inflicted further damage with an interview in Reader's Digest, in which he was challenged to acknowledge the Holocaust happened. Gibson responded: "I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes of course. Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives."

Gibson's choice of words has incensed Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, who wrote in a letter to the actor-director: "To describe Jewish suffering during the Holocaust as 'some of them were Jews in concentration camps' is an afterthought that feeds into the hands of Holocaust deniers and revisionists."

Mel Gibson cuts scene but Jewish groups are still angry