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What The World Thinks of America (BBC program)

 
 
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2003 01:42 am
Former UK cabinet minister Clare Short assesses US-UN relations in the wake of the Iraq conflict, and argues global security can only be achieved through the UN.

" What The World Thinks of America

The United States is now, of course, the world's only great power.

Its economic and military might is massively greater than that of any other country, but too few Americans seem to understand that American power cannot make America safe.

If America continues to throw its weight around and to bully or punish anyone who gets in its way, it will stoke up more and more resentment and hatred across the world.

And this atmosphere acts as a recruiting sergeant for terrorism - the very enemy against which the post-11 September focus of American attention is directed.

Al Qaeda threat

The terrible reality is that the world is more fragile, divided, bitter and unhappy post-11 September, in exactly the way that Osama bin Laden would want.

The enormous tide of sympathy and support that flowed to America after the attacks - from all corners of the world - has now been dissipated.

I fear Bin Laden has won many more recruits, as the US response to 11 September has alienated more and more people.

We are living at a time of massive change in human history. There are now 6 billion of us sharing the planet. In 1900 there were just over 1 billion of us, and population is set to grow to 9 billion by 2050.

Obviously, this population growth strains our environmental resources and makes it crucial that we share and care for our planet much more carefully.

Nearly half the population of the world lives on less than the local equivalent of what $2 per day would buy in the US. Between one and two billion people live in abject poverty on less than the equivalent of $1 per day.

We have better communications than ever before. The world has become a global village and we now witness human suffering wherever it occurs in the world.

This has led to a growth of human solidarity, but also a growth in consciousness of how rich we are in the OECD countries and how poor they are in most of the rest of the world.

We also have capital aplenty, technology and communications and knowledge that can easily be transferred across the world.

Global justice

And thus we have two possible ways forward: either a commitment to greater global justice, sharing knowledge and technology to give everyone in the world the chance of a decent life; or a growth in inequality, bitterness, environmental degradations, disease, war and displacement.

Obviously, greater justice is morally preferable, but it is also in the self interest of the people of the OECD countries and in particular in the interests of the people of the US.

If we are to build a stronger commitment to global justice, we need international law and rules that benefit all people and that are fair to all people.

And to achieve this we need the United Nations.

It is here that all nations meet and agree on international priorities, laws and conventions.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was agreed through the UN. Our commitment to fight HIV/AIDS, get all children to school, abolish polio and smallpox, end wars and send peacekeepers or to authorise military action and much more besides is all taken forward through the UN.

US 'disrespect for UN'

But many in the US hate the UN.

The fanatical Right - represented by people like the Oklahoma bomber - think the UN is a conspiracy to create a world government and destroy America's freedom.

The current administration has shown its disrespect for the UN throughout the Iraq crisis.

But the same attitudes were present during the Clinton administration which refused to pay its dues to the UN, to sign the Kyoto Agreement, accept the authority of the International Criminal Court or even to support the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

It isn't that the US does not operate in the UN system. It finds it useful when it is ready to do America's bidding.

But is soon very exasperated if countries have differing views.

The US wants to use the UN to tell everyone else what they must do and is increasingly willing to use its power to bully and punish those who get in its way.

The sadness of all this is that it is in the interest of the US and the American people, as well as all the rest of us, to build a commitment to international justice and the rule of law.

And we cannot build such a world without a strong commitment to work together through the UN and work to increase its effectiveness and decisiveness.

Let us hope that we will soon begin to learn the lessons of the divisions over Iraq and begin to unite through the UN in a commitment to build a more just, stable and safe world order.

If not, we will see more division and bitterness and, I fear, more terrorism in the years ahead of us. "


Clare Short is taking part in a unique BBC-led global television debate about the United States' place in the world.
What The World Thinks of America will be broadcast in the UK on BBC Two on Tuesday, 17 June, 2003 at 2100 BST.


You can also watch the programme from this website:

BBC America



[from BBC news]
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 15,121 • Replies: 204
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GreenEyes
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2003 01:51 am
Walter, lets face it our admin sucks... i.e., the world thinks we are pond scum. If the shoe fits?? Thanks GWB & Co.

Remember 2000? I voted for Dumb, Dumber won because of his Florida ties! Stand by.... 2004 is around the corner!
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2003 04:54 pm
Walter - what the WH is concerned about right now is not how the world thinks of little george, but of how the American voting public sees him. All energies are focused on his re-election.

I think it is belatedly dawning on some memebers of the WH that they may have blundered in over-estimating themselves and under-estimating others. This whole Iraqi thing is coming apart, and somehow they have not hit upon the right formula to rescue it. And so far it doesn't look like Bush will be covered in glory from a successful Israeli-Palestinian agreement.

Bush's whole rush to fame here was based on the glorious war commander, liberating Iraqis and making the world (read America) safe. They're having to work harder and harder at that image. And world opinion is sneaking in. The initial French and german reaction is giving way to better thinking.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2003 05:36 pm
Walter, Kind of reminds me of how the Israeli's are treating the Palestinians with their military might. Seems they have failed over and over..... c.i.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2003 07:48 pm
Quote:
Its economic and military might is massively greater than that of any other country, but too few Americans seem to understand that American power cannot make America safe.

If America continues to throw its weight around and to bully or punish anyone who gets in its way, it will stoke up more and more resentment and hatred across the world.


NOT America! Some of us do understand.
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BanPC
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2003 11:01 pm
First of all I am not American... however I think that the perception I have of the UN was formed well before any Iraqi conflict was thought of.

My perception of the UN and it's non relevance to global security was formed whilst watching images of the Yugoslavian conflict. Where UN peacekeepers stood by as humans were slaughtered.

I watch with interest as the fundamentalist Islamic clerics now attempt to create a state of Islam in Iraq by holding public rallies and meetings. Curiously all of these activities have not been available because of the previous regime. Now that America has removed the old regime, they revel in the luxury of freedom to demand America to piss off so they can bag all the women and set about banning cinema, television, alcohol etc etc.

In all of it's historical actions in war America has never attempted to create an empire of it's own. WWII could have seen them remain in Japan for instance... however they did not.

I know it is all very generalised.. however I am glad the americans exist as the help my island recieved in the battle for the coral sea saved me learning a new language!

Don't get me wrong... sometimes I think the Yanks are quite mad...and get a bit ahead of themselves in a patriotic sense... but in the end I would prefer them to step in and stop something than die waiting for the UN.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2003 11:19 pm
BanPC brings up a very good point; that the UN has not been effective in their mission to reduce terrorism. However, the one thing they seem to do well is to help with world hunger. It's not so much that the US should be the world police; but as the most powerful economic and military power in the world today, we do have some responsibility to help secure the peace and control terrorism. It's just not the way this administration has handled it. All we can hope for now is that we will have a more sane administration after the next election, and world opinion will change with it. c.i.
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BanPC
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2003 11:23 pm
If a change in the administration is indeed a goal for America someone better start cleaning and maintaining your vote machine thingy's, starting in Florida?

I am only glad MY ISLAND's population is not at a point where a machine is needed, we still tick the boxes here with a pencil.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 09:33 am
BanPC, It's only a hope of the minority in the US that wants to see a regime change in our country. Most Americans still rate GWBush doing a good job. c.i.
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CJR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 02:40 pm
How the Israelis are treating the Palestinians????????? You meant "How the Palestinians are treating the Israelis" didn't you. They teach their children how to kill Jews, not hate Jews, KILL Jews. Hamas, made up of Palestinians vow to eliminate Israel completely. Israel has offered 97% of everything the Palestinians have asked for in regards to giving them their own state and they continue to step on to civilian busses with Armani explosive vests. Israel offered to do this with Bush and they offered to do it with Clinton and still they send 17 year old girls, trained from birth to kill Jews instead of how to play with dolls, date boys and grow up to be doctors, moms, etc, into Yom Kippur celebrations to blow themselves up and hope to take a bunch of Jews with them.

Israel only responds, they don't initiate. As an American, I would think you would back Israel as it's the only democratic nation in the Middle East. They hold elections, they promote success amongst it's businesses, it allows women to VOTE, they have a fairly open society and opposition to the Israeli government by Israelis is not dealt with with violence. The population is made up of Middle Eastern, European and AMERICAN jews and non-jews and yet you, as an American, seem to think that the Palestinians are being treated unfairly.

You know, if you did your homework, you'd know that there really ISN'T ANY SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN!!!!! Check it out.

CJR
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 02:44 pm
Of course there is such thing as a Palestinian. The "research" you recommend is a reference to a contention that Palestinians do not deserve their land.

And yes, Palestinians are treated unfairly. You seem to equate all Palestinians with Hamas. Hamas is by and lareg a group of murderous thugs. The same can't be said of all Palestinians.

Most people's qualm with Isreal is not about their Democracy BTW, but rather their attempts to expand their territory onto land that is not theirs and the methods they use to combat the terror they suffer.

Their methods leave much to be desired.

Their expantionism is at times criminal (by their own standards).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 02:45 pm
Welcome to A2K, CJR.

Nice, that your first response here was done to this thread.

However, I didn't want to start a discussion about Israel<>Palestine here, but to announce that BBC broadcast.

(Didn't they tell you to stay at the theme in your school, when you did your homework?)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2003 02:55 pm
Israelis' view about USA, as it will presented on the BBC-program is to be seen/read here:

Israelis' view of America

The view of other nationalities can be got via a clickable map on that BBC-site :wink:
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 11:33 am
There is a question of the reasonableness of "the world's" opinion that seems to be being sidestepped. Sometimes "the world" is right in their criticism of the US. Sometimes their criticism is based on envy or a lack of shared goals in a given area. I'm not claiming that I can tell you which opinions "the world" has are worth listening to and which should be ignored, but I don't agree with the blanket notion that if "the world" thinks the US is wrong, the US must be wrong.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 12:03 pm
Scrat wrote:
but I don't agree with the blanket notion that if "the world" thinks the US is wrong, the US must be wrong.


Certainly you are right.

It only works the other way round.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 01:13 pm
From everything I read and hear, the USA has very much become the worlds most popular whipping boy. It's shot to #1 with a bullet as the DJs used to say. Yes America can be heavy hand and insensitive at times and is not exactly squeaky clean
The UK was once upon a time the #1 whipping boy, now we are #2 and we were never paragons of virtue by any stretch of the imagination. We carry a few similar millstones to those of America. Arrogant, rude, imperialistic, so goes the critics. Water off a ducks back.
There are many countries, north, south, east & west of here that may well be more idylic and better run but that doesn't mean they are conducive to a safer and better life style. Nor are they as pure as the driven snow. The driven slush more like and of course the greasy palm at the tiller. Then there is the popular parlor game, Pass The Brown Envelope Under The Table.

So for all of that and with respect to others, there are only 2 countries I would ever want to live in. I'll take the errors and the critics and live with it.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 01:37 pm
oak, You describe the realities of this world succinctly. No country has a 'clean' history. As regards today's reality, too few countries control the world's economy with too many living off of less than US$2 per day. Money always talks loudest. That's everybody's reality. c.i.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 02:42 pm
I think it should be said that the US was unpopular before Bush ever came on the the scene. I do think he and his administration have helped along anti-Americanism--but it was doing very well before.

Bush and Co. just gave US detractors some good excuses.

And, I'm interested in exactly what Clare Short and others expect the US to do to come into the good graces of the rest of the world. Since we were villified pre-war-- What steps do they expect from us that aren't related to the war? (I think we know what their objections to the war were.)
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 03:15 pm
Sofia wrote:

And, I'm interested in exactly what Clare Short and others expect the US to do to come into the good graces of the rest of the world. Since we were villified pre-war-- What steps do they expect from us that aren't related to the war? (I think we know what their objections to the war were.)



Sofia, The thing to realise about dear old Clare is, she is one can short of a candleabra. In fact, Clare is one of those rare creatures, a remnant of the Loony Left or what some call An Armchair Socialist. We have to suffer fools and the loose cannons unfortunately. That is the price of living in a democracy. The land of milk and honey may runneth over and form a huge lake but Clare wants 75% of the gross and the rest of us can argue over the remainder. She and her loopy friends are not going to have much influence on this side of the Big Sea nor on yours.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 05:06 pm
I watched her "I'm really quitting this time" speech. I could see lots of purposeful yawns, and heard some disrespectful mumbles during.

The first time she said she was quitting, I assumed it was a strong stand on her principles. I didn't know quite what to make of her, after her self-congratulatory, final speech before Parliament. Of course, that doesn't really seperate her from all the other politicians.

So, the major complaints pre-war about Americans seemed to be: fatness, loud talking, cowboy boot wearing, ... Have their been no thin low-talkers of varied footwear travelling Europe?
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