We know it's Palestinian, but where's the Authority?

Can anyone educate me about any current Palestinian movement for peace with the Israelis? Abbas has lost credibility with me, because of his response (inaction) to the recent terrorist attacks.

I feel more and more one-sided because I don't hear of Palestinians for peace.

Craven
Not surprised by your response since it is what I would have expected. Since Munch and McGentrix have already responded and said much of what I would have.there is nothing much more tosay. However:


Israel's action has always been retaliatory and or an effort to take out terrorist leadership. It has never been against civilians. As for extremists sure they appear on both sides, the only difference is the Israeli extremists are not sponsored by the government and are under control.


The responsibility at least at present is in their court. Since it is the Palestinian terrorists groups that are actively engaged in trying to undermine the peace process.


Because they were part of the structure of terrorism.

.

The Palestinians had more than enough opportunities to control their destiny and squandered them. Now they must uphold their end of the bargain. How long must Israel be expected to sit back and continue to suffer killing of their citizens before they retaliate?

A minor quibble here. Isreal's retalitory attacks are usually delivered immediately following the terror attack to make a point that I understand.

Some of thsoe attacks simply lash out at known militants within the sights while others are more targeted.

What I speak of is something altogether different.

It is the targeted killings that occur in a lull. Those, IMO, are extremely counterproductive. Even if the target is often someone who deserved as much.

The people who don't deserve it are the peaceful folk on both sides and a poorly timed killing (or well timed killing depeding on your take on the intent) can severely undermine progress made toward peace.



I can agree with this so long as it's not an attempt to detract from Israel's responsibilities. Which Sharon has thus far tackled admirably.

I have not seen many cases in which progress toward mid-east peace was made without strong pressure on both sides. I do not wish to find ways to relive Isreal of the pressure for her top perform her responsibilities.



Quite often they were, but during the period in which Isreal was doing it's major crackdown (e.g. Jenin etc) the targeting of Palestinian police was indiscriminate.

The incursions were brutal (not necessarily wrong) and many Palestinian police who did not support terror also had a strong adversion to seeing the IDF invade.

Couple that with the systematic destruction of the PA and their security services, the incarceration of a few Palestinian moderates who were actually speaking out against terror and the indiscriminate targeting of PA buildings you have a result that is a reduced capability on the PA's part to combat terror.





Sigh, yes Palestinians have squandered many chances, I have been frustrated at their sheer stupidity many times. I will refrain from commenting on your very optimistic view of Israel as it seems entrenched.

Just offering an opinion here, seems to me that Bush, be it intentional or not, has set up Abbas. Just weeks following a political skirmish within the Palestine rank and file to establish Abbas as a negoitating partner with questionable policital authority, Abbas was presented as The Head of State. There should have been the obvious (and perhaps they were) difficulties noted by the Bush team/road map in such a designation. What followed was political fallout from the summit from both the extreme zionists and the extreme Hamas factions. Abbas will be blamed by the radical islamists for leading them down a trail of compromise while Sharon offers up a few already designated illegal trailer houses as settlements to be vacated. Symbolic? perhaps but not meaningful. Abbas now has the extremists within his own camp to war against (which he has not the authority nor the power to do) as well as adhering to the road map demanded by Bush. Its pretty much a no-win situation for Abbas. Sharon comes out smelling like a rose, conceding nothing, losing nothing. Abbas is the fall guy.

Sofia,

The Palestinians are facing a very tough dillema.

On one hand they belive that the terrorists groups will agree to a cease fire. The groups walked out on talks before they started based on what they saw on TV.

Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have many in their populations that say the road map is a sellout.

Palestinians have had demonstrations saying to Abu that "the homeland is not for sale" and Sharon has been booed by his own party.

I find your take on the situation to be extremely one-sided.

Cracking down on terrorists in Palestinian territories is not as easy as snapping your fingers. In my opinion if the crackdown is lanched right now the peace plan will evaporate.

Abu does not ahve either teh resources or the political capital to do anything more than a very cautious crackdown.

He can't target all the extremists at once. He will lose and so will the Israelis and Palestinians who long for peace.

I think he is right to wait on the crack down. Besides being futile it would endager the peace plan.

I think Isreal was wrong to open up their borders and I wish they'd make their steps in other areas.

It's possible for the crackdown will be needed. But remember that Israel's military in its sheer superiority has not made headway. How can the PA?

Because they are Palestinian? YES! And that fact helps them predominantly in negotiations and in the fact that the tarrorist groups are reluctant to wage war on Abu.

Abu is right to call the pressure for an immediate crackdown to be a risk of civil war.

Right now those groups are not going to target him. If he cracks down on them all without nuancing his position and exploring negotiation they will wage war on him and those who hope for peace will lose.

Isreal should keep their borders closed until he can wrangle something from them. Once more of them become convinced that he is not "selling" them short a crackdown will make more sense.

Right now I predict that is he can't get a ceasefire from the militants the plan is dead.

If he cracks down he will lose because if he could win the conflict any deal he signs would not be recognized by the street.

His other choice is to simply give up on the plan and avoid the civil war. This would maintain the muderous status quo.

I am quite exasperated by those whose main focus is to determine who is at fault rather than the ways in which this can work.

Right now the most likely way involves keeping your fingers crossed and hoping that Abu can get a ceasefire. A crackdown on those who do not uphold the ceasefire is much easier than a blanket crackdown. That would spell death to the process.

dys,

I am extremely worried as well that Abu is the scape goat.

I do not yet think so because I do not want to think so. I want to see Sharon's moves as being earnest.

Please dear godess of Craven's beck and call, make it so!

Incidentally the Israelis have razed more inhabited Palestinian residences in this their "first step" than they have razed Israeli illegal settlements (Isreal demolished 13 Palestinian homes yesterday).

10 of the 14 upcoming plans to dismantle settlements do not involve residents either.

Sharon says he will only destroy "unauthorized" settlements. This was not a distinction that he agreed to in the road map.

Those details lead Palestinians to claim that "It's a phony show that has no value" (Nabil Abu Rudaneh).

And Peace Now, an organization that monitors settlements says: "The government obviously has right now the interest to present itself as dismantling settlements. But what I think they are doing is splitting existing outposts and giving them separate names" ( Dror Etkes).

No biggie, but it is a different perspective from that which paints Isreal in an inordinately positive light.

Good news:

A poll released yesterday by the Jafee Institute for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv said that 59% of Israelis would support a removal of all outposts. An increase from 50% a year ago.

56% said they would support a unilateral withdrawal up from 48% last year.

edit: changed %6 to 56

dyslexia




Nothing to lose. I disagree since people both Palestinians and Israeli's are continuing to die. That is the bottom line and it is more than enough to lose. It is about time that the leadership , including Arafat since he is still in control,on both sides get off that ego trip and consider the people who they represent.

Responses To Attack On Rantisi

Speaking from his hospital bed today, Rantisi said that George Bush is "the biggest terrorist of all" for encouraging Sharon. He also said that Hamas would keep fighting until all Israelis leave the region.

Bush's spokesman, on the other hand, turned the other cheek and criticized Israel. He said that Bush is "deeply concerned" by the attack, feels that it "undermines the Palestinians' ability to fight terrorism," and "does not improve Israel's security." "Of course Israel has the right to defend itself," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said, but it must be "consistent with broader objectives" such as implementing the Road Map. President Bush was fairly tolerant of the Hamas murderous attack on four Israeli soldiers on Sunday, dismissing it as the work of "Palestinian extremists."

Government sources said that Israel would continue to fight the terrorists until the PA fulfills its promises to do so. Israel's Government Press Office released a statement this afternoon calling Rantisi "among the most extremist leaders of the criminal Hamas organization in Gaza. He has preached and directed murder, sabotage, terror and incitement for many years." The statement says that Rantisi has stepped up his murderous activities, both openly and covertly, "in order to wreck the process begun at Aqaba" - and that these included partial responsibility for the murderous attack that killed four soldiers at Erez Checkpoint two days ago. Because the Palestinian Authority is taking no action to stop his criminal activities, Israel is "compelled to protect its citizens and try to halt this arch-terrorist’s murderous actions, the danger of which is increasing."

Shimon Peres of Labor does not accept this strategy, and said that the goal must be "only to do everything to prevent an escalation."

The IDF Spokesman said today that the Hamas leadership "has made a strategic decision to undermine the Road Map and ruin any chance of dialogue that could lead to a ceasefire and political negotiations." The prepared statement further stated that Hamas has "declared its intention to carry out suicide attacks in order to undermine the political process." Since 1993, Hamas has sent out 113 suicide bombers, 72 of them in the past 33 months. As a result of these suicide attacks, 227 Israelis were killed and 1,393 were wounded.

Hamas said it was already planning more retaliation against Israel - and in fact a volley of six mortar shells hit the Negev city of Sderot late this afternoon; one woman was treated for shock.

The Palestinian Authority said that the attempt on Rantisi's life was meant to torpedo the Road Map plan. "We will carefully study the matter and will take the appropriate measures,” threatened PA official Nabil Amr, while Yasser Abed Rabbo said that the attack is "effectively an attack against the Road Map," aiming to sabotage PA efforts to reach a cease-fire agreement with Hamas. Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Sulaiman was scheduled to arrive in Ramallah tomorrow to mediate the truce agreement. Hamas called off these talks after the Aqaba summit, but said yesterday that it was "re-considering." Israel's attitude towards the talks has been cold, aware that the "hudna" cease-fire under negotiation is only a time-out until Hamas feels ready to begin attacking Israel once again.

The Victims of Arab Terror International Organization (VAT) announced its strong support of what it called Israel's belated action to eliminate Arab terrorist Hamas leader Rantisi, "whose constant incitement and encouragement of murderous attacks have resulted in the death of countless Jews within and without the Jewish state." VAT Founder Shifra Hoffman called upon Prime Minister Sharon "to continue to target the leaders of all Arab terror factions, including chief PLO terrorist Yasser Arafat."

Shimon Peres is to Sharon what Powell is to Bush.