Saved ?

I'm sorta with Rae; but I don't talk with any god. I listen to my own conscience, and try to treat all living things with respect and dignity. Hopefully, I would leave this world with better karma. c.i.

Even God's instructions, Liberty?



I agree, edgar, and I try to do just that.

My interpretation of the purpose of this thread was to seek out, from those who define or consider themselves to be a person who seeks a relationship with God, the reasons why they did not engage in regular worship with others.

In that context it is far less argumentative than some apparently perceive.

I do understand the need of some to not miss an opportunity to belittle those who do believe in God.

My relationship with God is personal. It is not to be shared with others. That would be a diminuation of the relationship, IMO. My 'proof' is in my actions, each and every day, not in any public accounting on any particular day.

It's cliche, but walking the talk is more important to me, than talking the talk.

The point here is people if you are uncomortable spending even one day just talking with your maker. You might want to think about how you would want to spend eternity. Some find the Sabbath a blessing others find it burdensome law

Yes, I agree, ehbeth, it is more important, but I would put to you that what you propose is tantamount to hiding your light under a bushel, which is not generally the preferred state.

Why limit it to Sundays? (genuinely curious)

What about Sabbath - Julia Jarvis
Tilden Edwards, from the Shalom Institute, in his book "Sabbath Time" talks about what Sabbath meant in the Hebrew scriptures. Sabbath was seen as a day of rest modeled first by God in the creation story when God blessed the seventh day and stopped working. Sabbath was also the day when Israel celebrated its freedom from their liberation of the Egyptian slavery. Deuteronomy 5:15 says...You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your god brought you out with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath."

The Sabbath was also a sign of hope. Sabbath offered the Israelites a foretaste of heaven when they would lie back in God's arms and behold the glory of creation for all eternity. In this month's Christian Century, Episcopal priest Barbara Brown Taylor wrote an article on remembering the Sabbath. She tells a story about attending a funeral at an African American Baptist church. In the eulogy the preacher tried to comfort the congregation by telling them that the person they loved had gone on to that place where every day is Sunday. The central message is that the Sabbath is a time when we completely trust God to take care of us. We no longer depend on our own abilities. We rest in God's abilities.
Rabbi Abraham Heschel in his book, The Sabbath, talks about the Hebrew word menuha which means much more than rest. "Menuha means more than withdrawal from labor and exertion, more than freedom from toil, strain or activity of any kind...to the biblical mind menuha is the same as happiness and stillness...it is the state in which there is no strife and no fighting, no fear and no distrust. The essence of good life is menuha. The writer of Psalm 23 is talking about menuha. In the ancient world, kings were known as shepherds of their people who took care of their basic needs. The psalmist states that God is his shepherd--God takes care of his needs. And because God does this--we as God's sheep can lie down in green pastures because we are fed. We can be led beside the waters because our thirst has been quenched. Finally we can be safely led down the right paths away from danger because God protects us. The Sabbath is a time when we can go to God to be restored and renewed.

Sounds pretty great. But we no longer seem to live in a culture where the Sabbath is honored. Like many of you, I grew up with Sunday blue laws. Hardly anything was open on Sundays except for hospitals and churches. One knew you had to get all your food/gas and necessities on Saturday to prepare for rest on Sunday. As a child I never really appreciated these laws. They were sometimes an impediment--especially when I wanted to go buy some candy or when we needed some milk. But what I did notice about it was how quiet everything seemed on Sunday. People poured into parks with their families after church and around sunset everything seemed to stop.

Now one can't really tell the difference between Sunday and Monday. Most everything is open and everyone continues in their buying busyness mode. I am not advocating for Sunday blue laws again. Jesus said the Sabbath is made for us and not the other way around. Martin Luther said, "No day in itself is better than the other. Worship, Luther felt, should be daily, though one day set aside for community worship is important."

It is very difficult for us to fully implement a one-day Sabbath given the fast demanding pace of our lives. First of all we don't really have a community which supports Sabbath practice like the Adventists and Jewish communities. Secondly our lifestyles are often too complex to have a whole day set aside for Sabbath. I can't imagine a single parent of several children or a spouse taking care of her ailing loved one full-time, being able to really implement a whole day of Sabbath.

God's invitation to us is clear spoken through the words of Jesus:

"Come unto me all you who are weary and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble of heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy. My burden is light."

Okay.....

First of all, apologies to maxsdadeo. No, I wasn't inquiring as to what you think God thinks is acceptable. If you are more comfortable congregating with a number of people, I think that's great. To each his own.

It is my personal belief that joining en masse to congregate with God, is not necessary.

And I will change my quote of having conversations with 'God' to having conversations with my conscience ~ on a daily basis.

My question to Ibredd now, is.....

What is your agenda by asking this question? First you asked if a person can be saved, if one didn't wish to set aside everything to spend one day a week talking with God. And now you're saying that we might want to think about eternity?

There is a very fine line between faith and knowing. And this is the problem I have with organised religion.

No one knows what eternity holds for any of us.

maxsdadeo, I honestly wasn't trying to be arguementative. I just have a belief "system" like many others here do -- that my relationship with god is personal and I've learned to be spiritual in my own way (and I believe with the help of god). I've tried churches and have found that I feel closer to god in my back yard being quiet and appreciating the beauty around me -- being grateful for it. I see churches functioning mainly as social clubs, but by saying that I'm not knocking you or any other church-goer (and I doubt that anyone else here is either), it's just the way it works for me. When it comes to religious discussions, I think it's wrong to get mean about others beliefs (unless they're condemning me to hell or trying to change me), because no matter what they are, it all comes down to personal choices and what works best for you.

Husker, that's an interesting history of the sabbath. A lot of people I know have chosen one particular day of the week to truely relax and recoup from the business of our lives, these days -- and they aren't always able to make it on Sunday, but whichever day they choose is "sacred," whether they are believers or not, simply because it is healthy to do that for yourself.

max, As you probably know by now, I'm a atheist. No church for me any day of the week, except when I attend weddings and funerals. The majority in this world believes in some form of monotheistic religion. From my perception, I see that a 'natural' phenomenon of humans. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many that prays to their god daily or weekly. Fine with me; even all my siblings are christians, and they pray for me. Many of my friends belong to one religion or another. With what little knowledge I personally have of religions, I have opted to just live my life in the most humanistic way I possibly can, to treat all living things with respect and dignity. For me, that's enough. I do not need to mingle with others in congregation to pray or praise any god whether it's daily, weekly, monthly, or anything else. I'm happy and satisfied with my convictions. c.i.

Well, who/whatever bless you, ci!

I think that is just great, the most compelling and attractive aspect of athiesm/agnosticism is the ability to sleep in on Sunday morning guilt- free.

With apologies to IBredd, I attempted to focus the question, which was posed to all, to only those who espouse a belief in God, which I believe, is the more intriguing query.

Rae: Save those apologies for when you need them!! :wink:

Liberty: Nor was I, honest.
There are many similarly situated folks, I felt the same way before I started a family, but now, I view things much differently.

Husker: I thought your post was fantastic, and I have used that Luther quote a great deal.

Max, you seem to be making a habit of posting comments like this without any foundation or quotes -- and you don't post them to anyone's attention so it is very difficult to reply to them.

Come on, fellow. Have the jewels to be more outfront. Direct comments of this sort to someone's attention so that appropriate response can be given.

As an example of why your style isn't appropriate, if you had directed that comment in my direction, I would easily show that you are full of...well, whatever.

Show some guts.

Do I hear a challenge? c.i.

Frank - I as a believer (Christian) - felt some of the same thing expressed by Max. There was a flurry of postings - put me in a like minded perspective

Just curious, Husker, as to what constitutes a flurry.

Thanks for the cohone check, but
there was a method to my madness, frank.

I intentionally left it general because it was a general comment, which I was certain would be responded to by those who read my posts and thought I was referring to them.

Congratulations frank, you passed!

Though, admittedly, I am on shakier ground here than previously, since the thread was initially directed to all folks by IBredd, building upon that I attempted to refine the question specifically to those who consider themselves believers but do not attend regular worship with other like minded individuals.

So, you win this one, but I would put you on notice as well as others, that those questions which are directed to believers are perhaps not the best venue to point out the folly of those people's beliefs.

LOL boss - that's funny more than a couple less than a dozen??
watch-it - it's a silly day!

Max

You are free to write anything you wish -- and I will defend your right to write it and think it.

But asking people who have an opinion on a topic to stay out because it might not be a good idea to point out the folly in their ideas -- really seems to fly in the face of what this forum is all about.

Fact is, my earlier comment made lots of sense.

Allow me to re-state it. Perhaps you and Husker would respond to it. I am truly interested in your replies.

I wrote:



It is not a wise-ass question. It is a legitimate question. I suspect others may find a response of interest. And I value your response and that of Husker -- although I'm sure I will have follow up questions.

"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands" Acts 7:48

I had no idea Hobbits dwellethed high...I thought they stuck to the Shire....

Most of my Sabbath moments involve Ozzy....

One only needs a saviour if one believes they are completely riddled with sin. Seeing as Christianity has the best escape clause of any religion (last rites), do what you want, confess on your deathbed and that's it, you are saved!