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If one doesn't wish to set aside everything in life in order to spend one day a week
talking with God on his holy day about how he has behaved in the past week, and plan what
he should do in the comming week , is there any way this person can consider himself
SAVED.

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Yes, by not wasting a seventh of your life by knowing in your heart that you are a decent and moral person and respond instictively whenever the occasion arises to imitate the teachers of all the world's greatest religious/spiritual masters.

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yep - got to be a little grace but as dov says about the heart!

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Saved?

Only God (and the individual) knows if he or she is saved.

I would put forth that one who professes a faith would and should wish to be with those similarly inclined.

As to those who profess an uncomfortableness with "organized religion" and argue that "you don't need to go to church to be a(n) {INSERT NAME OF RELIGION OR DENOMINATION HERE} I would say this:

As to Christianity, God tells us that wherever two are more are gathered in His name, He will be there.

Why the heck wouldn't YOU want to go?

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Ibredd
You might ask yourself if these things you do or do not do are pleasing to God? The best way to determine God's will is via the Scripture (God's will reveiled) and Worship.

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I 'saved' myself a number of years ago, Ibredd.

I 'talk' to God all the time. He and I have a very good relationship.

I don't go to church and I don't 'belong' to any religion. I base my life on being the best person I can be, being kind to others, and leaving this world better than when I came into it.

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IBredd,

First of all the Bible is quite clear that anyone who believes in Jesus is saved.

Many would have you jump through their loops but nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to pay them heed.

The Bible says:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us." Titus 3:5

Don't let anyone convince you to jump through their loops and give them your money to be saved. Those conditions are stupulated by people who use religion to their own benefit.

maxsdadeo wrote:

As to Christianity, God tells us that wherever two are more are gathered in His name, He will be there.

Why the heck wouldn't YOU want to go?

Because you don't need to give money to people to go to heaven.

Because you can worship alone.

Because many houses of worship are, like Jesus said, a "den of thieves" (Matthew 21:13, Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46).

Because the temples of worship can be godless.

"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands" Acts 7:48 (repeated a different way in Acts 17:24).

I think it's a great idea to avoid "organized" religion as it often simply consists of a group who want to control your actions and take 10% of your money in your god's name.

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Well said, Craven.

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Quote:

Because you don't need to give money to people to go to heaven.

Because you can worship alone.

Because many houses of worship are, like Jesus said, a "den of thieves" (Matthew 21:13, Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46).

Because the temples of worship can be godless.

"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands" Acts 7:48 (repeated a different way in Acts 17:24).

1. You don't need to give money to go to church.
2. Worshiping alone is usually about as fulfilling as other things you do alone. It's ok, but it is usually better with others.
3. You mean, there are sinners in there?!?!? Ohmygosh!! Isn't that the point?
4. I don't think I know what you mean by "can be godless", so I can not comment.

Yes, God is where two or more are gathered in his name, yet he doesn't dwell in the temples, quite the conundrum, heh?

You have cited the textbook examples of "why I don't go to church", I had hoped for a little better..........

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A life well spent
would mean there is no reason left to save.

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Worship alone is about as fulfilling as other things you do alone. It's okay, but it is usually better with others.

In whose eyes, maxsdadeo?

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God is wherever you want him to be ~ it doesn't take two people or more.

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Quote:

God is wherever you want him to be

Is the inverse also true, Rae, that He isn't where you don't want Him to be?

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Quote:

In whose eyes, maxsdadeo?

WOW!!

Great question!

Setting aside for a moment that I intentionally phrased that as a cheap double entendre, definitely in my eyes, Rae.

I have worshipped alone, and I have worshipped with others and have always found the latter preferable to the former.

I assume you were also inquiring as to what I thought God thought was preferable?

As unacustomed and uncomfortable as I am to "speak for God" I think he does view collegial worship preferable to worship alone.

Does he hear your prayers when you are alone?

Of course, but why are there so many opportunities to worship in countless numbers of ways and manners if not encouraged by God?

It is almost as if He were saying, " OH COME ON NOW!!! YOU CAN'T FIND ONE THAT YOU LIKE??!!??

BUT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO WORSHIP ME, YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO BY YOURSELF??"

Or something like that...................

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Re: Saved ?

Ibredd wrote:

If one doesn't wish to set aside everything in life in order to spend one day a week
talking with God on his holy day about how he has behaved in the past week, and plan what
he should do in the comming week , is there any way this person can consider himself
SAVED.

What are you doing here, Ibredd? Giving God a little critique on past performance, and helping him working out a plan of improvement for the comming [sic] week?

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maxsdadeo wrote:

1. You don't need to give money to go to church.

I knew you'd say that, I happen to think that the main reason that churches exist is for your tithe.

maxsdadeo wrote:

2. Worshiping alone is usually about as fulfilling as other things you do alone. It's ok, but it is usually better with others.

I don't worship but know many who do not agree with you.

maxsdadeo wrote:

3. You mean, there are sinners in there?!?!? Ohmygosh!! Isn't that the point?

No no no, I am saying that the institutions themselves deviate greatly from Christian teachings and become a social club and waste of money.

As in the example I quoted (where Jebus gets pissed and whips people) I think intitutionalized religion often degenerates into something driven by a lust for power and money.

maxsdadeo wrote:

Yes, God is where two or more are gathered in his name, yet he doesn't dwell in the temples, quite the conundrum, heh?

Just one of many contradictions, but don't blame me for the Bible's shortcomings.

In the Bible there is a consistent notion that God and Jesus did not like institutionalized religion.

God told the Jews to build him a tent but rejected more formal settings as much as he could.

He reportedly said to Daivid: "Awww man! You want to build me a temple??? I'm fine with the tabernacle, really I am. Ok, look, let's put this off and if your son wants to do that we can. Deal?"

So Solomon built the temple, god made him wise and Solomon prompty picked up on the varied religions of his 300 wives and 700 concubines.

The first temple built for God didn't even keep the man who built it on the straight and narrow.

Jesus got mad about what was happening in the institution he visited and opened up a can of.. well you get my point.

Then the Bible says God does not dwell in temples made with hands.

There is a consistent theme of anti-institutions and I belive the institutions are propagated by corrupt reasons.

maxsdadeo wrote:

You have cited the textbook examples of "why I don't go to church", I had hoped for a little better..........

Sorry to disapoint you but sometimes textbooks are right. :-)

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I completely agree with Rae and Craven. If you want to have a relationship with god, you shouldn't have to follow anyone else's instructions on how to accomplish that.

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And if you don't want a relationship at all (with God) that should be respected.

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Ibredd wrote:

If one doesn't wish to set aside everything in life in order to spend one day a week
talking with God on his holy day about how he has behaved in the past week, and plan what
he should do in the comming week , is there any way this person can consider himself
SAVED.

I'm not willing to participate in such a delusional exercise. I will comment that what you write should suggest from the outset that you have a priori assumptions which will frame the course of any debate anyone would be foolish enough to engage in with you.

Am i "saved?" I certainly hope not. I am also curious to know how one discusses with god how god has behaved during the week. (I know this is a cheap shot, but you need to be a little more careful in what you write.)

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Perhaps the easiest way to deal with this -- is not to guess that there is a god from whom one has to be saved!

In fact, it seems to me that if there is a God --the people who guess It is the kind of god from whom one has to be saved -- are insulting the God.

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