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Thu 14 Sep, 2006 05:26 am
Taking some more pics in the park this morning, and an elderly gent came across to pat my dog, and we ended up chatting about the park, the surrounding area and how it all looked many years ago.
He was a nine year old, in 1943/4, and vividly remembers that half of the park (30acres or so) was turned over to food production. The other half had an American camp, with several Sherman Tanks there, and numerous jeeps etc., all mounted with heavy machine guns.
Just outside the park, about 400 yards down the road (on what is now an area containing several Rugby fields) he remembers a very large contingent of American soldiers, numbering maybe 1500 - 2000, who seemed to suddenly arrive in early 1944.
He also told me about a large airfield not far away, with a downward sloping runway which proved ideal for Flying Fortress bombers to use for take off, as they could gain sufficient speed in quite a short distance.
He used to cycle over there with his mates, and hide in one of the big trenches at the end of the runway, and lie there on his back as these great monsters used to pass over, having just achieved lift off.
He reckoned that they couldn't have been more than thirty feet off the ground when they flew over his trench.
One runway guard used to shoo the kids away quite forcefully, but several others just used to tell them to keep their heads down, and even threw bars of chocolate into the trench as they passed by.
He had a paper round at the time, and when he delivered a paper, yesterdays paper was there on the step, to be given free to any soldier that wanted something to read.
He became quite well known on the American camp, because of his free paper distibution, and in the end was just waved through the entrance gates by the guards.
About the beginning of June '44, he did his paper round as usual, and then rode to the camp to give out the free ones. There wasn't a soldier to be seen. No tents, no vehicles, nothing. The main gates were left open, and piles of rubbish were flowing out of the twenty or so empty oil barrels that the Americans used for garbage disposal.
He immediately rode around and gathered up all his mates, and within the hour, he said that thirty or so young boys were rooting through the oil barrels, finding stacks of comics, nylons, discarded uniforms, dented helmets, belts, straps, old boots...you name it, they found it.
He didn't know it at the time, but they had all shipped out to the South coast in preparation for D-Day.
He never saw them again.
He still has some comics in a suitcase at home, and a U.S. Army knife that a cook gave him for coming to hand out the newspapers.
I asked him if he'd ever researched the whole thing. Who were they? What happened to them?
He said he tried a couple of times, with no luck.
Now....my question....to save me hunting around for hours, does anyone know of a good website or two, where I may be able to get this info?
Fascinating stuff, though. It's got me hooked!
Mind you, during my hunt, I'm coming across some rather interesting bits and pieces.......
From a website that looked promising....
"How a little brown book got me thinking about America"
Johnathan Pearce
...."A number of bookshops in Britain seem to be selling reproductions of the advisory books that were given to Allied servicemen readying for D-Day in 1944 and for U.S. Army Air Force personnel arriving in Britain in 1942. I bought a copy of the latter and it is, in its way, a wonderful snapshot of how Britain was viewed by Americans more than 60 years ago and makes me wonder if many of the descriptions could still apply. The book is called Instructions for American Servicemen in Britain. Here's a couple of paragraphs:
"A British woman officer or non-commissioned officer can - and often does - give orders to a man private. The men obey smartly and know it is no shame. For British women have proven themselves in this way... Now you know why British soldiers respect the women in uniform. When you see a girl in khaki or air-force blue with a bit of ribbon on her tunic - remember she didn't get it for knitting more socks than anyone else in Ipswich."
"Do not be offended if the British do not pay as full respects to national or regimental colours as Americans do. The British do not treat the flag as such an important symbol as we do. But they pay more frequent respect to their national anthem. In peace or war "God Save the King" (to the same tune as "Our America") is played at the conclusion of all public gatherings such as theatre performances. The British consider it bad form not to stand at attention, even if it means missing the last bus. If you are in ahurry, leave before the national anthem is played. That's considered alright."
I know that I had stored some websites, giving soma data for some regions/shires ... on my old computer.
While doing your job ... " to save me hunting around for hours" ... I didn't refind them but only a couple of others who are looking for that very same answer.
I'll continue doing my best ... ... ...
For another interesting bit and piece, which is of absolutely no significance to people outside my family--my mother and father met in England in 1943. (My mother was a nurse in a field hospital in the First Army, my father was an artillery officer who was later assigned to the Third Army.) They were married in a church in England on April 4th, 1944.
PS: what I know for sure is that in several museums of Her Majesty's Forces (like Bovington or Duxford, from where I know it personally), you'll find maps with some US garnisons on them.
And as an aside: it took me literally ages to find out what unit's HQs had been in our house in April/May 1945 - it was only possible to guess via some online regimental diaries.
Nice story E
Its going to be difficult without unit number/name etc.
Its just possible of course that some of the soldiers stationed in the park (Pinner Park?) may still be alive. It would be great if anyone of them remembered the old boy you met.
as for tracing them
Walter Hinteler wrote:PS: what I know for sure is that in several museums of Her Majesty's Forces (like Bovington or Duxford, from where I know it personally), you'll find maps with some US garnisons on them.
And as an aside: it took me literally ages to find out what unit's HQs had been in our house in April/May 1945 - it was only possible to guess via some online regimental diaries.
Wow!
Walter, Bovingdon is the airfield he was talking about, with those Flying Fortress.!!
I'll scoot over there soon, and have a nose round.
Setanta wrote:For another interesting bit and piece, which is of absolutely no significance to people outside my family--my mother and father met in England in 1943. (My mother was a nurse in a field hospital in the First Army, my father was an artillery officer who was later assigned to the Third Army.) They were married in a church in England on April 4th, 1944.
Do you know which Church, Set?
Steve 41oo wrote:Nice story E
Its going to be difficult without unit number/name etc.
Its just possible of course that some of the soldiers stationed in the park (Pinner Park?) may still be alive. It would be great if anyone of them remembered the old boy you met.
as for tracing them
This is Cassiobury park (where I walk the dog) Steve.
Bovingdon is about five or so miles away. Good idea about trying to see if there are any more "locals" that may know a bit more.
An interesting book which i read a few years ago was
Rich Relations: The American Occupation of Britain, 1942-1945, by Herbert Mitgang. The review linked here might give a false impression, though--it's not just about relations between GIs and English women, that's just one chapter. You might be able to get a copy through library loan.
I'm pretty sure WWII never actually happened so, of couse, there would be no US troops "over there" It's my understanding that a Certain Edward R Murrow was giving the assignment of creating the fiction of WW II to divert US citizens from the actuality that the US invaded Canada.
Lord Ellpus wrote:Wow!
Walter, Bovingdon is the airfield he was talking about, with those Flying Fortress.!!
I make a lot of typos - but this time I really meant Bovington :wink:
But
here's a nice site about Bovingdon
Lord Ellpus wrote:Setanta wrote:For another interesting bit and piece, which is of absolutely no significance to people outside my family--my mother and father met in England in 1943. (My mother was a nurse in a field hospital in the First Army, my father was an artillery officer who was later assigned to the Third Army.) They were married in a church in England on April 4th, 1944.
Do you know which Church, Set?
No, Boss. One problem is that my father is a Catholic, and Catholic churches in England are rather rare (as i'm sure you know). It is, of course, entirely possible that an Anglican church was used for the purpose, but i don't know if that sort of thing was ever done.
Walter Hinteler wrote:Lord Ellpus wrote:Wow!
Walter, Bovingdon is the airfield he was talking about, with those Flying Fortress.!!
I make a lot of typos - but this time I really meant Bovington :wink:
But
here's a nice site about Bovingdon
Not quite, Walter...if you look at the address on your link, it says Bovingdon.
I'm pleased it does, as I'm still "hot" on the lead.
Setanta wrote:Lord Ellpus wrote:Setanta wrote:For another interesting bit and piece, which is of absolutely no significance to people outside my family--my mother and father met in England in 1943. (My mother was a nurse in a field hospital in the First Army, my father was an artillery officer who was later assigned to the Third Army.) They were married in a church in England on April 4th, 1944.
Do you know which Church, Set?
No, Boss. One problem is that my father is a Catholic, and Catholic churches in England are rather rare (as i'm sure you know). It is, of course, entirely possible that an Anglican church was used for the purpose, but i don't know if that sort of thing was ever done.
sorry my tentative enquiries last year drew a blank
However if Ellpus and dog get on the case...
dyslexia wrote:I'm pretty sure WWII never actually happened so, of couse, there would be no US troops "over there" It's my understanding that a Certain Edward R Murrow was giving the assignment of creating the fiction of WW II to divert US citizens from the actuality that the US invaded Canada.
I was watching a film about this only last night...South Park the Movie.
Setanta wrote:Lord Ellpus wrote:Setanta wrote:For another interesting bit and piece, which is of absolutely no significance to people outside my family--my mother and father met in England in 1943. (My mother was a nurse in a field hospital in the First Army, my father was an artillery officer who was later assigned to the Third Army.) They were married in a church in England on April 4th, 1944.
Do you know which Church, Set?
No, Boss. One problem is that my father is a Catholic, and Catholic churches in England are rather rare (as i'm sure you know). It is, of course, entirely possible that an Anglican church was used for the purpose, but i don't know if that sort of thing was ever done.
What?? A "left footer" being married in a fine, upstanding Anglican Church??
HARRRUMPPPHH!
Shame though, as if it was on my travels, I'd have got a photo for you....I know how much you love seeing photos of churches, but this one may have proved of interest, on a personal basis....no army records or such? Do you have the marriage cert?
Ah! Just seen what you meant, Walter. Sorry.
No, Boss, i have no records--my sister tends to hoard family memorabilia, and deny that she has it.
Setanta wrote:An interesting book which i read a few years ago was
Rich Relations: The American Occupation of Britain, 1942-1945, by Herbert Mitgang. The review linked here might give a false impression, though--it's not just about relations between GIs and English women, that's just one chapter. You might be able to get a copy through library loan.
Interesting. My Mum would've been a prime target, round about that time.
Unless she had an eleven year pregnancy, I don't think that I'm a G.I. offspring. Although I love chewing gum, I must admit.
I'll see if I can dig that book up somewhere.
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