1
   

we went to "church" yesterday

 
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 09:00 am
<sigh>

let's move on, shall we?

real life wrote:
UU are generally considered to be an extreme fringe group, denying nearly all of traditional Christian teachings, while trying to hold the Christian label to attract attendance.


I challenged his position that UU attempts to hold the Christian label to attract attendance. UU is a liberal faith that has Christian roots, draws inspiration from Christian sources along with others, welcomes those who consider themselves Christian and those who do not, encourages it's members to follow the teachings of Jesus (and others). Most UUs do not consider themselves Christian in the traditional sense. The UUA does not claim to be a Christian denomination. And it CERTAINLY does not strive to hold a label of any kind in order to attract attendance.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 09:08 am
<heavier, even more condescending sigh>
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 09:15 am
Yes, let's move on without the question being answered.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 09:25 am
The answer, Intrepid, is that there is no single definition of Christian or Christian church. You posted the article that very clearly explained it. You are more than welcome and entitled to your definition of it and I am more than entitled to mine.

Stick the word 'atheist' in the e_brown's description. I have no personal conflict with that definition. You do, so be it.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:24 am
JPB wrote:
The answer, Intrepid, is that there is no single definition of Christian or Christian church. You posted the article that very clearly explained it. You are more than welcome and entitled to your definition of it and I am more than entitled to mine.

Stick the word 'atheist' in the e_brown's description. I have no personal conflict with that definition. You do, so be it.


I don't have a problem with it. It really doesn't matter to me. They can call themselves anything that they want to.

I am just trying to understand how wiccans, atheists etc. can be described as Christians by any of the accepted definitions. Not a made up definition to suit personal preference. I cannot see the logic.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:28 am
Go back and read the article you posted.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:33 am
Intrepid wrote:
What at least one reference has to say about who is a Christian.

Range of definitions of "Christian:

There are also many distinct definitions of the term "Christian" (pronounced 'kristee`ân). Different people have defined a "Christian" as a person who has:

Heard the Gospel in a certain way, and accepted its message, or
Become "saved" -- i.e. they have trusted Jesus as Lord and Savior), or
Been baptized as an infant, or
Gone to church regularly, or
Recited and agreed with a specific church creed or creeds, or
Simply tried to understand and follow Jesus' teachings, or
Led a decent life.
Following these different definitions, the percentage of North American adults who are Christians currently ranges from less than 1% to about 75%.

Within a given denomination or wing of Christianity, there is usually a consensus about who is a Christian, and who is not. However, there is often little agreement among members of different faith groups on a common definition of "Christianity."

Visitors to this web site send us many E-mails daily that comment on its contents. About 80% are positive. But among our negative and sometimes angry Emails, and occasional death threat, the two most common topics are the proper definition of "Christian" and our use of BCE and CE format to identify years instead of BC and AD.

What people can agree on, and what they cannot:
With a bit of effort, one can sometimes collect a random group of adults and have them reach a consensus on a definition of:

Who is an Evangelical Christian, or
Who is a Roman Catholic, or
Who is an Eastern Orthodox believer, or
Who follows the Historical Protestant faith, or
Who is a Pentecostal, or
Who is a Mormon, or
Who is a Jehovah's Witness,
etc.

But it is probably impossible to have any large group of adults reach a consensus on precisely who is a "Christian," and who is not.

There are on the order of 1,500 denominations, para-church organizations, and other groups in the U.S. who consider themselves to be Christian. 1 Added to this are thousands of independent Christian congregations which are not affiliated with a denomination. One could assemble a random group of adults and ask each individual to sort the 1,000 groups into two piles: those which are "truly" Christian, and those that are not. In some cases, an individual will select their own faith group as the only truly Christian denomination, and define all of the other 999 as sub-Christian, quasi-Christian, or non-Christian. Other individuals might say that all 1,000 denominations are Christian. Most likely, a given individual will select most of the 1,000 groups as Christian, and reject the others. There is no possibility of reaching a common definition which would identify which groups are "truly" Christian.


Source


Will this help?
Probably not.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:34 am
Intrepid,

The point is that it doesn't matter how you or I define Christianity. If a Wiccan also feels that they are a Christian, then who are you or I to tell them they are wrong? If a UU feels that they are in a Christian church based on it's history and purpose, then who is real life (or you, for that matter) to tell them they are wrong?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:37 am
I won't persue this, but I just want to reiterate that I am not saying anybody is wrong. I am just trying to justify the reasons for the definition.

I will accept that the UU can call themselves Christian. I just do not understand the reason or justification.

I think I will call myself an American because I am posting on an American board. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:39 am
Intrepid, did you read what you posted?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:45 am
Intrepid wrote:
What at least one reference has to say about who is a Christian.

Range of definitions of "Christian:

There are also many distinct definitions of the term "Christian" (pronounced 'kristee`ân). Different people have defined a "Christian" as a person who has:

<snip>

Simply tried to understand and follow Jesus' teachings, or
Led a decent life.

<snip>

But it is probably impossible to have any large group of adults reach a consensus on precisely who is a "Christian," and who is not.


<snip>One could assemble a random group of adults and ask each individual to sort the 1,000 groups into two piles: those which are "truly" Christian, and those that are not. In some cases, an individual will select their own faith group as the only truly Christian denomination, and define all of the other 999 as sub-Christian, quasi-Christian, or non-Christian.

<snip>

There is no possibility of reaching a common definition which would identify which groups are "truly" Christian.


Source
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 12:00 pm
Intrepid wrote:
I think I will call myself an American because I am posting on an American board. Rolling Eyes


Wow! You too? Laughing
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 12:27 pm
I am confused... I thought Canada was in North America...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 01:46 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
I am confused... I thought Canada was in North America...

As is Mexico
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 01:55 pm
ok mr clever cloggs is panama in N or S america?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 01:59 pm
Panama sits on the isthmus that connects South America with Central and North America. Are they all Christian?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 02:07 pm
Technically, Panama is the isthmus at the extreme south of North America which connects it to South America. According to the CIA, the nation is 85% Catholic, and 15% Protestant--that suggests to me that it is 85% Christian, and 15% bigotted goofball.

Panama was long a province of Columbia, and although it frequently rebelled against the Columbian government, it was ignored by the larger world and the rebellions failed. Then, a little over a century ago, Theodore Roosevelt decided a canal should be built in Panama where the French had tried and failed about 20 years earlier. So, the next time the Panamanians got froggy, hey Presto! an American cruiser shows up, and voila, a successful revolution.

Or, in the immortal words of Senator S. I. Hayakawa, at the time of the Panama Canal debate in the Senate: "It's ours, we stole it fair and square, we should keep it."
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 05:18 pm
intrepid wrote :
" Are they all Christian? "

i think they are and very clever ones too !
when we passed through the canal in 1995 , the special handlers who bring the ships through the canal turned out to be very clever - they managed to "sell" some of their shiny panamanian coins to some american passengers for $5 a piece ! (and you couldn't bargain with them ! i think the coins were worth about 50 cents , but they sure were shiny ! Cool )
hbg
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 08:16 pm
Re: we went to "church" yesterday
dyslexia wrote:
The lady Diane suggested that we need to expand our social horizons so yesterday we went to a Unitarian/Universialist "church." What a crock that was;
"let's all hold hands while we sing hymn 157"
I was very polite and did not bold out the door until the "service" was finished but we will not be going back.


The main problem is the church you went to.
Try an Indepedant Fundamental Baptist Church.

At least they are the ones who are the closest to teaching what the bible actually says.

Only thing I disagree with them on is their view of eschatology.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 08:21 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
real life wrote:
The assumption that a UU service is representative of Christianity at large is an error.

UU are generally considered to be an extreme fringe group, denying nearly all of traditional Christian teachings, while trying to hold the Christian label to attract attendance.

This may appeal to some who don't like Christian teaching, I'm simply pointing out the fact that there's not much that's Christian in the UU.


This is so true. I went to a UU service and I was shocked at how un-Christian it was.

They talked love for your neighbors. They supported peace. They talked about forgiving enemies. They cared for the poor. They were non-judgemental and offered a welcome to people of any lifestyle.

Jesus himself couldn't be less of a Christian.


None of which DEFINES Christainity.
Christianity is about believing in Christ as your Saviour.
Get it? It is about Christ.
Now true Christainity does Teach all of what you have said.
Love aka Agape.
Peace
Longsuffering
Forgivness
Care of others
Etc.

Just cause a group does those things does not make them christain.
0 Replies
 
 

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