Steve 41oo wrote:Tico, I've not much sympathy for the English historian either. Any intelligent person should known the risks of getting the wrong side of an American law officer. But the point is he didn't initially recognise him as a law officer. He was challenged by an off duty cop working as a security guard. I'm pretty sure if he had realised it was a policeman, there would have been no incident.
You're probably right. But my point does not relate to the incident so much as it relates to the content of his missive in the paper the next day. (Though one is left wondering as to the dynamics of their curbside encounter -- how much of a jackass was he to receive the treatment he did?)
McTag wrote:There must have been dozens of delegates crossing the street at times.
The "cop" wasn't even on duty? WTF?
Dozens of delegates + off-duty cop watching dozens of violations of the law + an encounter with one arrogant jaywalker, ignorant of the law = History prof goes to jail
You think cops don't enforce laws while off duty? Done all the time here. Granted, it makes for interesting encounters when they are not properly uniformed.
dadpad wrote:I cant see the off duty cop being all that interested in some old dude jaywalking unless there was something else. A prior exchange?
More likely he had seen a lot of jaywalking, went up to the guy to tell him to stop jaywalking, and got attitude in response. Can't imagine he was going to do anything other than give him a warning. Not like he had a citation pad in his bomber jacket. It escalated from there.
smorgs wrote:I've not had a fag since last night!
Got me patch on...
I'm in a very bad mood.
x
I'll join you, Sarah.
I have four left, and will have no more after that.
We'll see who can be the grumpiest!
(well done, by the way)
It was just on the news, the one just before the scintillating overture to The Marriage of Figaro played by the Vienna piss artists with such joyful zest, that Mark's And Spencer's are determined to become carbon neutral by 2012.
If you desisted going into the ROTFLMAO jittterbug at that you would have heard that by then some of the frocks, and no doubt other items of apparel suitable to the tastes of a fairly well-to-do virtuous lady of eminent respectabilty. ("Basques are straight ahead sir, third left, fifth display on right. You can't miss it sir.{winks lasciviously} ), are to be made from re-cycled bottles.
I suppose cheap raw materials might be one way of competing with cheap labour so we should keep all our old bottles here.
Nobody will ever compete with a finely turned out Mark's and Spencer's lady promenading in Southport, or any one of a number of places, having recently been widowed and with a nice pile all to herself and speculating on Queenie's signature line about exhausting all the possibilities.
Re-cycled bottles notwithstanding.
Lord Ellpus wrote:smorgs wrote:I've not had a fag since last night!
Got me patch on...
I'm in a very bad mood.
x
I'll join you, Sarah.
I have four left, and will have no more after that.
Why don't you crush the last one ... to symbolize your intent to crush your habit?
Ticomaya wrote:Steve 41oo wrote:Tico, I've not much sympathy for the English historian either. Any intelligent person should known the risks of getting the wrong side of an American law officer. But the point is he didn't initially recognise him as a law officer. He was challenged by an off duty cop working as a security guard. I'm pretty sure if he had realised it was a policeman, there would have been no incident.
You're probably right. But my point does not relate to the incident so much as it relates to the content of his missive in the paper the next day. (Though one is left wondering as to the dynamics of their curbside encounter -- how much of a jackass was he to receive the treatment he did?)
He was probably feeling non too pleased with his treatment, and who can blame him? As he couldnt get back at the policeman, the President of the United States was the obvious target for a good kicking.
Steve 41oo wrote:Ticomaya wrote:Steve 41oo wrote:Tico, I've not much sympathy for the English historian either. Any intelligent person should known the risks of getting the wrong side of an American law officer. But the point is he didn't initially recognise him as a law officer. He was challenged by an off duty cop working as a security guard. I'm pretty sure if he had realised it was a policeman, there would have been no incident.
You're probably right. But my point does not relate to the incident so much as it relates to the content of his missive in the paper the next day. (Though one is left wondering as to the dynamics of their curbside encounter -- how much of a jackass was he to receive the treatment he did?)
He was probably feeling non too pleased with his treatment, and who can blame him? As he couldnt get back at the policeman, the President of the United States was the obvious target for a good kicking.
Right ... if I ever do something minor in London contrary to the law (like jaywalking), and behave sufficiently like an ass to the bobby to get myself arrested, my appropriate recourse is to write an article in the Guardian expressing my concerns over England's involvement in foreign affairs. Makes perfectly good sense.
More information is now available.
The officers police report of the incident is available .... HERE.
Cop was wearing his standard issue police uniform. History prof refused to provide identification, so he was arrested. Standard Operating Procedure. He resisted arrest, so he was forcibly handcuffed. Witnesses said the officer, "kept his cool. He was polite and asked him several times for his I.D. The man was belligerent and refused to cooperate with him."
Newspaper article with cop's version of events.
Ticomaya wrote:
Right ... if I ever do something minor in London contrary to the law (like jaywalking)..
Actually what you refer to as "jaywalking" is not illegal in UK. Even if the little red man is lit, you are free to dive into or under traffic if you so wish. That might be part of the mix to this incident.
Thanks for the police report Tico. (There is no such thing as an English Citizen btw. Legally there is no such nationality as English, just British who might be from England or Scotland etc)
Ticomaya wrote:
Right ... if I ever do something minor in London contrary to the law (like jaywalking)..
Actually what you refer to as "jaywalking" is not illegal in UK. Even if the little red man is lit, you are free to dive into or under traffic if you so wish. That might be part of the mix to this incident.
Thanks for the police report Tico. (There is no such thing as an English Citizen btw. Legally there is no such nationality as English, just British who might be from England or Scotland etc)
I tend to believe the Prof when he said that he was in doubt as to whether the arresting officer was actually a policeman.
He may have been wearing standard uniform, as he states in his riposte, but doesn't make it clear whether he was wearing a "bomber" jacket over the top which may have concealed that unform.
It would be normal for someone in a foreign City to try to ignore what appeared to be a member of the public who was harrassing him for merely crossing a road. You must realise, Tico, that crossing a road in the UK is perfectly legal, and perfectly normal. An everyday activity.
What lends me to think that the Prof was in doubt re. the man's identity is the fact that he asked to see some ID. If the uniform was clearly visible, I can't see why the Prof would have asked this of him.
The arresting officer actually quotes the Prof as saying ""Well now I believe that you are the police." when back up had arrived and they had him pinned on the floor.
Also, from one of the witnesses.....
"It looked rather pathetic," said Lisa Kazmier, a professor of history at Drexel University in Philadelphia. She witnessed the arrest. "I definitely felt sorry for the guy. It was like he was Osama Bin Laden or something. It seemed so bizarre seeing this helpless looking guy on the ground like that."
His treatment does seem a trifle excessive.
Personally, I think the cop didn't like the fact that someone actually had the temerity to question his actions, and possibly felt slightly humiliated.
Steve-
We are subjects.
The Prof thing is a mere and unique trifling incident about which swirled fields of force of which we know next to nothing. Had the cop's wife driven him into paroxysms of rage and frustration. Was it a rectal boil.
It's interesting though how such things can be fanned into a fire by anyone with an interest in doing so. All it lacked was sex for it to be big.
There are plenty of people in uniforms on this side who are exactly the same and I'll bet the Yanks have plenty of relaxed coppers on their side.
It proves nothing.
Lord Ellpus wrote:I tend to believe the Prof when he said that he was in doubt as to whether the arresting officer was actually a policeman.
He may have been wearing standard uniform, as he states in his riposte, but doesn't make it clear whether he was wearing a "bomber" jacket over the top which may have concealed that unform.
It would be normal for someone in a foreign City to try to ignore what appeared to be a member of the public who was harrassing him for merely crossing a road. You must realise, Tico, that crossing a road in the UK is perfectly legal, and perfectly normal. An everyday activity.
I have crossed the road in London, LE. And I have watched people nearly get killed by the taxis drivers whose job it appears is to demonstrate to jaywalkers the foolishness of their actions. Do they earn point for the number of pedestrians they hit? No, I always tried to cross at the well-marked crosswalks with the flashing lights. Hard to break the habit to look to the left as you step off the curb.
Quote:What lends me to think that the Prof was in doubt re. the man's identity is the fact that he asked to see some ID. If the uniform was clearly visible, I can't see why the Prof would have asked this of him.
The arresting officer actually quotes the Prof as saying ""Well now I believe that you are the police." when back up had arrived and they had him pinned on the floor.
Also, from one of the witnesses.....
"It looked rather pathetic," said Lisa Kazmier, a professor of history at Drexel University in Philadelphia. She witnessed the arrest. "I definitely felt sorry for the guy. It was like he was Osama Bin Laden or something. It seemed so bizarre seeing this helpless looking guy on the ground like that."
His treatment does seem a trifle excessive.
Not when viewed from the eyes of the law enforcement officer.
Quote:Personally, I think the cop didn't like the fact that someone actually had the temerity to question his actions, and possibly felt slightly humiliated.
No doubt about it. But there is no question in my mind that History prof got all he deserved and more.
Steve 41oo wrote:Ticomaya wrote:
Right ... if I ever do something minor in London contrary to the law (like jaywalking)..
Actually what you refer to as "jaywalking" is not illegal in UK. Even if the little red man is lit, you are free to dive into or under traffic if you so wish. That might be part of the mix to this incident.
I was using "jaywalking" as an illustration, not to suggest such is illegal in London.
Quote:Thanks for the police report Tico. (There is no such thing as an English Citizen btw. Legally there is no such nationality as English, just British who might be from England or Scotland etc)
Yes. Bear in mind I didn't write the report ... but it appears the cop indicates he was a British Citizen. Are you saying that was incorrect as well?
spendius wrote:Steve-
We are subjects.
You might be but I'm not. I have formally renounced my status as "subject" and asserted my right to British Citizenship as guaranteed under the Treaty of Maastricht 1993.
Ticomaya wrote:
No doubt about it. But there is no question in my mind that History prof got all he deserved and more.
.....and more.
I quite agree there, Tico.
(personally, having read most of the various blurbs now, I reckon he was being over pompous and probably met his match)
Ticomaya wrote:Lord Ellpus wrote:I tend to believe the Prof when he said that he was in doubt as to whether the arresting officer was actually a policeman.
He may have been wearing standard uniform, as he states in his riposte, but doesn't make it clear whether he was wearing a "bomber" jacket over the top which may have concealed that unform.
It would be normal for someone in a foreign City to try to ignore what appeared to be a member of the public who was harrassing him for merely crossing a road. You must realise, Tico, that crossing a road in the UK is perfectly legal, and perfectly normal. An everyday activity.
I have crossed the road in London, LE. And I have watched people nearly get killed by the taxis drivers whose job it appears is to demonstrate to jaywalkers the foolishness of their actions. Do they earn point for the number of pedestrians they hit? No, I always tried to cross at the well-marked crosswalks with the flashing lights. Hard to break the habit to look to the left as you step off the curb.
Quote:What lends me to think that the Prof was in doubt re. the man's identity is the fact that he asked to see some ID. If the uniform was clearly visible, I can't see why the Prof would have asked this of him.
The arresting officer actually quotes the Prof as saying ""Well now I believe that you are the police." when back up had arrived and they had him pinned on the floor.
Also, from one of the witnesses.....
"It looked rather pathetic," said Lisa Kazmier, a professor of history at Drexel University in Philadelphia. She witnessed the arrest. "I definitely felt sorry for the guy. It was like he was Osama Bin Laden or something. It seemed so bizarre seeing this helpless looking guy on the ground like that."
His treatment does seem a trifle excessive.
Not when viewed from the eyes of the law enforcement officer.
Quote:Personally, I think the cop didn't like the fact that someone actually had the temerity to question his actions, and possibly felt slightly humiliated.
No doubt about it. But there is no question in my mind that History prof got all he deserved and more.
Well maybe.
But I bet the next police precinct meeting (I've seen them on
Hill Street Blues) was an interesting one.
"Listen up, guys. Since the city is keen to improve its image, and since we are a venue for international conferences and wish to attract more, please don't attack any more elderly foreign professors. At least not when there are any cameras around. The mayor would consider it a personal favour."
Sorry, favor.
"... unless, of course, they start acting snooty and superior and are ignoring your authority ... in which case, do whatcha gotta do.
And, hey ... let's be careful out there."
This is what it says on one of the local Atlanta blogs...
Is it against the law to ask a cop for his ID? Maybe the latest round of the "Patriot" act has criminalized this.
Piffka wrote:Is it against the law to ask a cop for his ID? Maybe the latest round of the "Patriot" act has criminalized this.
No, but then that's not why he was arrested.
I don't know about Washington state, Piffka, but around here, if you commit a crime and don't show identification to a uniformed law enforcement officer, you stand a pretty good chance of getting hauled downtown. Your chances increase exponentially if you are a snooty, arrogant twit.
