THE BRITISH THREAD

Kevin's drunk again

de Cock au Vin

Cock-a-doodle do!

Aaron

Archie

Able

Dan

Filo

Isaac

Manny

Nobby

Roger

Stu

AAADFIMNRS.

Amelia accepted Arthur's definitely firm intentions munching newly received Smarties.

In the last 5 days, I've made pizzas for two snooker players - John Virgo (small grand pan with pineapple) and Mark Williams (medium Italian ham and chicken).

No relevance to anyone called de Cock, but still British in nature and therefore (I personally feel) worthy of posting in this esteemed thread.

For those who don't know snooker:

John Virgo (ex-player, now commentator)
Mark Williams (former No. 1, still top 8)

There was supposed to be some pics, but they didn't work, and it's late so I gave up.

off subject, but re the Suffodk killer...

tell me why -

Why are they describing this particular still-walking-streets prostitute witness, when the killer is still roaming around?

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1166130903169B216
Comment about half way down the column.

Hard to link to exact articles at this point, as there are many to choose from on the internet, but on a few I've seen mention of a still streetwalking prostitute who gave a description of the person one of the victims was last seen ... getting into his blue BMW, he being chubby, with glasses and dark hair.

This may or may not be the guy.

But why would the newspapers describe her seeing this? Seems to me to set her up.

Unfortunately Osso, our newspapers are among the most ruthless in the world, and will sensationalise stuff like this, just to sell extra copy.
The girl (I don't like all this dehumanising, and just referring to them as prostitutes)in question first appeared on our Channel4 News in a live street interview, when the news crew were travelling the area, just to see if any girls were still on the streets.
She admitted that she hadd to be there, as she was a heroin addict and basically had no other way of feeding her habit.
She was then asked a question or two as to whether she knew any of the other girls, and she quite voluntarily launched into all the details about having seen one of them get into the BMW etc.
Obviously the newspapers picked this up and ran with it.
It's not known yet how accurate her account is, or how important her details will prove to be, but the police certainly won't be happy with the BMW details getting out like this, as it could prove to be a massive red herring, or it could give the murderer, if it was BMW man, time to scrub out his car and the crime scene before he's caught.

My one main thought when I saw this poor girl still walking that Street? The police should join forces with the medical profession and make sure that these girls who are addicts get a supply of heroin to fulfill their personal needs, administered under strict supervision, in order to get them out of there for the forseeable future.
They should then work with them to see if they can eventually get them off the heroin altogether.

How a civilised society can't recognise that these people are being driven by a terrible addiction and how we can just look the other way whilst these girls go into such an area just as a means to satisfy that addiction, is totally beyond me.

These people need help, especially at a time like this, IMO.

(still half asleep, so you may have to translate some of the above into English)

Well I don't know milud. There was prostitution before there was crack cocaine.

But certainly, there is not enough drug rehab done.

McT, I'm not saying for one minute that the only reason for prostitution is a heroin addiction, but I'm sure that the vast majority of these girls, past and present, are forced into doing it because of some desperate need, or some overriding fear of what will happen to them if they don't ply their trade.
By fear I'm talking violent, intimidating pimps, basically.

These slimebags do all they can to get girls hooked nowadays, as it saves beating them up regularly when they "misbehave". The addiction itself ensures that the girls turn up promptly each night.
Even when there is a psycho on the loose.

Very good Spend. You've definitely gone sideways in my estimation.

I'm beginning to favour the German approach - legalised sex workers in organised brothels.

This at least provides a secure environment in which these women can practice a business which is always in demand.

There is actually a strange parallel with the drugs which cause many of them to "walk" the streets - that criminalisation plays into the hands of criminals, leaving control with the pimps and pushers who have a vested interest in maintaining addiction and subservience in an atmosphere of fear.

Of course, tight regulation would need to be in place for both the drugs (for example, "real" heroin rather than methadone) and over the conditions in the brothels, checking for work permits, HIV status, use of condoms, tax payment etc.

I'm not saying it would be an easy change but one which needs to be considered and it is the prudes in society who prevent us from addressing, it seems to me. No one in the public eye (politicians, media) wants to be seen to be "soft" on these matters, which disturb Middle England, therefore nothing is done about it.

Perhaps the deaths of these unfortunate young women, who sell their bodies in a very dangerous way in order to pay those who keep them hooked on the drugs they sell, will give an impetus to address these two difficult challenges to a society which largely "works" (in comparison with so many other countries in the less developed world).

KP

And on a lighter note, a friend just emailed me:

"If anybody is looking for a game of rugby this weekend...


I hear that Ipswich are desperately short of hookers!"


And more seasonally, if equally tasteless:

"The local department store has also employed a dyslexic Santa...


he keeps leaving prossies under the tree!"

You've touched on something that I was going to mention a while back, Pete, regarding the heroin issue.

I recently read a few news articles about how a top policeman was advocating the legalisation of, among other drugs, heroin. He was pretty much roundly slated for his views but to my mind, he was spot on.

What he was trying to say, before the columnists took segments of his blurb and used it for their own "middle England" agenda, was that if, say heroin supply, was taken over completely by the government so that it could be given (under supervision) in properly managed clinics, then a whole raft of problems would probably disappear overnight.

1. The addicts would no longer be at the mercy of the pushers, who invarioubly work for large criminal organisations if you go to the top of their "chain".

2. The addicts would no longer need to find a way of making the money to get their next fix. This doesn't just cover prostitution, it pretty much covers all day to day minor (and sometimes major) persistent crime throughout the UK.

3. The drug could be administered in a safe, clinical environment, thereby cutting the risk of infected needles etc., and also giving the opprtunity for the addict to seek drug counselling if they wish to get off the stuff. At this moment in time, a very small percentage of addicts come into contact with counsellors. In the new scheme, it would/could be a daily occurence.

4. By stopping the massive profit to the "supply" chain, there would be little or no incentive for the pushers to "introduce" non users to heroin, as the "new" addict would not purchase from them for very long, as they would very quickly opt to go to a clinic.


I took part in a crime survey in conjunction with a local police station about five years ago, and some startling facts emerged.
The police compiled a list of theit top fifty "nuisances". These were predominantly young, male, persistent offenders who took up hours and hours of police time, because of their offending behaviour.

A typical example would be a young man who carries out "opportune" thefts, with no regard for the damage or distress that he causes.
A car or two smashed one day, in order to steal the stereo, a spate of house burglaries over the following week, etc etc.
When that offender is finally caught, he is asked if he wishes other crimes to be taken into consideration (TIC's).
This means that the police can close the files on those cases, and the offender cannot be punished for them again in the future. His sentence may be varied according to the number and seriousness of the TIC's, but he knows that it is distinctly to his advantage to 'fess up to them when he is being done for something else.
Wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

It is quite common for this type of offender to confess to 30, 40 or more TIC's, so it shows that one young male can cause considerable damage and distress on a regular and frequent basis.

The top 50 list was compiled, and every aspect of each individual "nuisance" was researched and listed, in an attempt to find one or more common denominators.

The overwhelming denominator was heroin addiction. Out of the 50 males (age range 17 - late twenties), 39 of them were heroin addicts, many of whom had admitted that they HAD to do what they did, in order to survive with some normality until the next day, when it would start all over again.
Get up in the morning, knowing that they had to have a fix by 8pm in order to feel normal, not high, just normal.
If they didn't get the 8pm fix, they would suffer terribly from about midnight onwards.
Ordinary "young unskilled" jobs don't pay enough for a daily habit, so they consider that they HAVE to make money in other ways, usually by stealing.

If these young men were to be offered free heroin (obviously controlled amounts, obviously under strict supervision) they would not wake up in the morning with that same "need" to find a way of making money to feed the habit.
I reckon that in my area (and any other inner city in the UK) this type of petty crime would drop off the scale within a very short space of time, should the heroin idea come to fruition.
It would also lead to a massive decrease in future addicts, as there would no longer be a profit to be made by the supplier, and would therefore stop the new "introductions" to the drug in the first place.

The enormous cost of such a scheme would initially cause the public to balk at the idea. However, the money saved in police time, court time, jail costs and damage to property would more than outweigh the cost of such a scheme, IMO.
In addition to this, there would be a lot less distress caused, people would feel a bit safer, and more importantl than all of this put together, the heroin addict could very much be a thing of the past in a few decades time.

I say do it!

Ref 1.
Farrell M, Hall W. The Swiss heroin trials: testing alternative approaches. BMJ. 1998;316:639. . (28 February.)
-------------------------------------------------

Figures tag heroin trial a lifesaver

By Paola Totaro, State Political Editor
July 10 2003

Australia's first medically supervised injecting room is poised to become permanent in Kings Cross after a report found it had saved lives as well as improved life for local residents.

The 214-page evaluation of the trial - released yesterday by the Special Minister of State, John Della Bosca - also found that the much feared "honeypot effect" had not eventuated and support among local residents and business had grown during the trial.
-------------------------------------------------------
In the above trial users purchased their own heroin and just used the injecting rooms.
I havnt bothered with links as the trials and articals are a few years old

Who said it's civilised? People do what they need to do and always will. The fact that they are brainwashed by commerical interests rendering them unable to distinguish between needs and wants is irrelevant. Mrs Steve is currently teaching 'Citizenship' (a mandatory subject) to the next grubby cohort of teenagers about to be discharged onto our streets as worthy members of our "civil" society. After a deep fat fried breakfast, they learn about respect, for themselves and for others. About the law, our system of government, about democracy. About what it means to be different. Everything in fact that I was not taught...just expected to pick up as I went between maths physics and chemistry.


But the kids aren't daft. Some of them can read...and they watch tv too. They know whats what...how it works in the real world, even if they dont understand the details.

There is still a large but decreasing chunck of our 'society', broadly in the middle, who hold onto these delusional notions of a civilised society. Britain being a place of opportunity, work, leisure into which one pays tax and receives services. In short a decent place to bring up kids and see them educated in 'Citizenship' classes.

But just as people at the bottom do what they need to do, people at the top do what they want to enjoy themselves. So what shall we consider today class? Let's consider the role of the business or corporation as a 'citizen'. Lets think about the Serious Fraud Office and its investigation into BAE's multi billion arms contract with the Arabs. Of course the Saudis do things differently from us, being less civilised. In fact they are corrupt. They whore around London. They indulge in every depravity money can buy, and it buys a lot. So we sell them over priced Tornado and Typhoon aircraft, they supply us with oil and a billion pound slush fund swims around the Carribean and Swiss bank accounts. Not accounted for. Some people become (a la Mark Thatcher) extremely rich for no apparant reason except in Mark's case it was mummy who sold herself and dodgy aircraft to the old king. Smell anything a bit wiffy here? The SFO did. Feathers were ruffled. Bank accounts were to be examined. So what happened next? Mr Blair broke off from his interview with police about selling peerages to instruct the Attorney General to put the block on any further enquires into the Al Yamani deal. Because we dont want to upset anyone, especially our rich Arab friends who are so kind to us and might let al Qaida loose on us if we do. Peerage anyone? "The national interest must come before due process of law" That contemptible statement sums it up kids.. thats how it works- if your at the top.

Meanwhile at the bottom, the Sun recently had pictures of the 5 girls murdered splashed all over page 1. Tactfully not having a naked girl on page 3, they had 12 semi naked girls on page 8 all saying how much they were 'gagging for' the opportunity to be a Page 3 girl. Teenage boys have been known to read the Sun.

And today we read in the Express how Mohammed Fayed believes the British establishment plotted to have his son and his fiance-to-be Diana murdered because they posed a threat to the Royal family.

Now when you leave school and get a job, as members of a civilised society you will pay tax. If you're stupid.

What is the general view of the Serious Fraud Office abandoning their investigation into the arms deal with Saudi Arabia after two years of "work"?

On the face of it the 50,000 jobs in the North-West are being created by turning a blind eye to corruption and ,one presumes, organised criminality and pressure from the Saudis is running our justice system. What else might they demand?

It is a good time to bury news.

Steve-

Have you noticed how often TV News, when doing an item about the sex offender's list, accompany it with pictures of young girls skipping behind school railings and suchlike.

As I said earlier-virtue and beauty are boring.

I think I made my view pretty clear.

Blair blocking the enquiry is beneath contempt. Its the most despicable thing he has done as PM.

And I dont care if 50,000 jobs depend it. Do something else. Do something more worthy than sell arms to venal and corrupt regimes. Become a sex worker...there are vacancies.

Yes I have noticed that, not particularly about sex offenders but with other stuff it makes me laugh.

There has been a flood. Find a good looking female reporter and a puddle and make her stand in it while she reads news of the devastation.

Similarly about the proposed new bypass...presented from the kerbside of the INCREDIBLY NOISY ROAD I CAN HARDLY HEAR MYSELF

Now over to New Scotland Yard where our reporter has been told absolutely nothing new but is standing in front of that funny revolving triangle thingy

Pathetic innit?

But what's the alternative?

The cop dramas show people how to commit crimes and how to tell lies.



I agree. I wonder what it has done to the morale of those investigating fraud. Makes them look like they are only set upon the tiddlers doesn't it?

It's the same with tax inspectors. Just wait until somebody investigates housing benefit and the John Major's bloody stupid lottery.

Ponder this Steve-

"The riot squad are restless they need somewhere to go." (Bob Dylan- Desolation Row).