origin of phrases

vivien. try this site. quite an interest one

http://www.quinion.com/words/index.htm

Thanks for the information, Vivien. I've never heard the expression "Gilt on the Gingerbread." I'm curious to know what it means and how it is used.

Some of my favorites:

Loose cannon--on an old square-rigged warship, a cannon rolling loose on the deck, weighing one and a half to two tons, is an obvious disaster.

Lock, stock and barrel--refers to the three main parts which are assembled to make a black-powder fire arm.

Going off half cocked--the lock, or firing mechanism, on said black-powder fire arm, had two positions for the hammer (it was called a "striker" in the days before the firing pin): cocked, pulled fully back to actuate the trigger mechanism; and, half-cocked, which, ostensibly, prevents the striker from hitting the plate, and putting a spark into the black powder. Given that the soldier was usually standing with the gun barrel pointing up at his head while loading, a gun which "went off half-cocked" was a most undesirable happenstance.

The whole nine yards--a relatively recent American expression: ready mixed cement trucks have a capacity of nine cubic yards in the mixer, and they are frequently called upon to put part of the load in one place, and part in another or more than one other place. So, the whole nine yards implies: "Yeah, buddy, put it all here." It has been come a quite common expression of superlative emphasis . . .

I'll try to think of some more . . .

i heard one about "the whole nine yards' During WWII, the spitfire supposedly had a 27 ft belt of 30 mm machine gun ammo per gun, so, when you shot all your ammo, you shot all 9 yards (actually x4), so I dont know the truth of this source. Sounds good though.

one that always got me was something my Uncle Stash used to say. "The whole kit an kaboodle"--He was a geologist in the West and maybe this was some miner talk but I never found out.

I love Michael Quinion's weekly newsletter! He features Weird Words and takes questions about the origins of words and phrases.

Michael Quinion on "kit and kaboodle"

Michael Quinion on "whole nine yards"

Blue Moon ??

old and knew - thanks for that site it is brilliant!

roberta - well you use it as 'that was the gilt on the gingerbread' meaning that extra that made something nice into something special, it doesn't have to be food, it can describe anything.

MacII - thanks for those links too - I'm adding these addresses to favourites so i can read them thoroughly.

Vivien - I'm familiar with the expression "gilding the lily" but that typically refers to excess of some sort. (As in covering a lovely lily with gold)

macII - yes totally different meaning - that is derogatory whereas gilt on the gingerbread is praising - I just used it on another thread because it was in my head from this thread! I said that reading Jean Auel's Shelters of Stone while in the Dordogne and visiting the caves and cave paintings made it more special and seeing the sites was the gilt on the gingerbread.

Turning a cold shoulder -lieterally translated into German- is a common German phrase as well.(I wonder, how many know the English origin and meaning!)

But, Vivien, when you "turn the tables" on someone you force them to do what they were trying to get you to do... like lose the game.

I always assumed it meant "rotate the table" -- thus putting the wineglass your enemy has poisoned in front of him instead of you drinking it. All the better if he's looking out the window when you do it!

I can't find a reference in the Phrase Origins-type websites I checked. Does anybody have a source?

Vivien, Thanks for the explanation of gilt on the gingerbread.

Wy, Why not check out our a2k etymology expert?

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7562

thanks Roberta - brilliant - I've bookmarked it

Roberta, that's the first place I went. I've had it bookmarked since I saw it in another thread... It has a lot about turn, but not about the phrase... Then I tried google, and found a lot of interesting sites, but didn't find this particular phrase. I may try again, or -- drumroll -- go to the library and ask a human librarian to find it in a paper book! How outre! :wink:

BTW, does "gilt on the gingerbread" parallel "icing on the cake"? I often hear "icing..." used sarcastically, but it can be used positively too...

Wy, Sorry if I sent you on a wild goose chase. But if it gets you through the doors of an actual library containing actual books, then maybe I'm not all that sorry. Love libraries.

Although icing on the cake and gilt on the gingerbread are similar, icing on the cake is not necessarily a good thing, although at one time it may have been. Now it can be good or bad.

I just got a raise. The bonus was the icing on the cake.

My daughter has the flu. When my husband got it, it was the icing on the cake.

I think this expression has evolved to suggest something additional thrown into whatever is already there.

Maybe that expression was emphasised by the bit in the Old Testament which says
"Consider the lilies of the field; they toil not, neither do they spin. Yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these."
In other words, the flower is perfection in itself, and cannot be improved upon.

Exactly, McTag. Carrying coals to New Castle means the same, no?

The expression Here's looking at you--considered a toast of salute, really was a sinister thing, hence glass bottom tankards. One raising a tankard of ale, could keep his eye on the other as they both drank, while keeping their sword hand free.

I always that that "coals to Newcastle" was about redundancy...as opposed to trying to improve on perfection.

Mac, Coals to Newcastle is used in much the same way as saying -- "selling freezers to Eskimos"

The Newcastle region was once well know for it 's coal mining and ship building as well