Revolution

hey Olga - thanks for posting - rough times, eh?

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Endymion wrote:

War Criminal

"A lot of people talk about impeaching Mr. Bush,
which should have been done certainly by now,
but impeachment is too good for him.
The man is a war criminal."
-- Michael Moore

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

I remember watching one of Moore's films (can't remember which) but he passes right by George Bush, who tells him to go get a proper job - or something to that affect

Looks like he's taken the man's advice

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Endymion wrote:

RexRed wrote:

Um, there is a BIG difference between free speech and hate speech.

Hate speech obstructs the right to the "pursuit of happiness" for all. Liberty does have it's limits.

I would think that would be obvious... but I guess not to some.

I think I understand what you're saying here, Rex

But here's the rub...

Roanoke Neo-Nazi Condemns Jena Six: William A. White Posted the Youths' Addresses on a Web Site That Calls for Lynching the Group.
From: The Roanoke Times | Date: 9/21/2007

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1Y1-110585093.html

On his site, Roanoke published contact information for the six youths headlined: "Addresses of Jena 6 N---s; In case anyone wants to deliver justice."

In a second item, White was quoted as saying: "If these n----s are released or acquitted, we will find out where they live and make sure that white activists and white citizens in Louisiana know it ... in order to find someone willing to deliver justice."

Now then - no one in the white house is saying anything about this site
Despite the fact that the families of those boys have had their lives turned up side down and have had to leave their own homes out of fear.

But they jump on moveon.org for criticizing a General ??

I find that highly amusing

If I am getting this right they are two separate things...

Two wrongs don't make a right.

This is rationalization.

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Endymion wrote:

Endymion wrote:

War Criminal

"A lot of people talk about impeaching Mr. Bush,
which should have been done certainly by now,
but impeachment is too good for him.
The man is a war criminal."
-- Michael Moore

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

I remember watching one of Moore's films (can't remember which) but he passes right by George Bush, who tells him to go get a proper job - or something to that affect

Looks like he's taken the man's advice

One hate speech does not deserve another hate speech, someone has got to be the better. Break they cycle or we become "war criminals" ourselves.

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I have another question, Are you a gun toting, yahoo redneck as Michael Moore painted all the majority of US people out to be in his Columbine "documentary"?

I would, say he is painting our citizens out with a wide brush.

I find it offensive being lumped into his hateful idea of the US. There is a way to extract this wrong from our culture without needing to infect/insult the whole body. It is not with hate but with reason, civility and clarity of purpose.

Before every revolution there is the chance for peace and unity.

It takes a unique leader to bring people together in love. I will tell you it is not a liberal or a conservative but a bit of both in union with the truth and compassion.

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RexRed

I'm sorry you see Mike Moore like that - and i would say that it is just not true he paints all US Citizens with the brush that you describe. If anything, after watching his films i've felt more empathy for the people of America - around the world we are all in the same boat - Mike is for the little people.
It's obvious. I'm glad the American people have him.

this is for one of them

Bob Marley - No Woman No Cry

No, woman, no cry;
No, woman, no cry;
No, woman, no cry;
No, woman, no cry.

Said - said - said: I remember when we used to sit
In the government yard in trenchtown,
Oba - observing the hypocrites
As they would mingle with the good people we meet.
Good friends we have, oh, good friends weve lost
Along the way.
In this great future, you cant forget your past;
So dry your tears, I seh.

No, woman, no cry;
No, woman, no cry.
ere, little darlin, dont shed no tears:
No, woman, no cry.

Said - said - said: I remember when-a we used to sit
In the government yard in trenchtown.
And then georgie would make the fire lights,
As it was logwood burnin through the nights.
Then we would cook cornmeal porridge,
Of which Ill share with you;
My feet is my only carriage,
So Ive got to push on through.
But while Im gone, I mean:
Everythings gonna be all right!
Everythings gonna be all right!
Everythings gonna be all right!
Everythings gonna be all right!
I said, everythings gonna be all right-a!
Everythings gonna be all right!
Everythings gonna be all right, now!
Everythings gonna be all right!

So, woman, no cry;
No - no, woman - woman, no cry.
Woman, little sister, dont shed no tears;
No, woman, no cry.

I remember when we used to sit
In the government yard in trenchtown.
And then georgie would make the fire lights,
As it was logwood burnin through the nights.
Then we would cook cornmeal porridge,
Of which Ill share with you;
My feet is my only carriage,
So Ive got to push on through.
But while Im gone:

No, woman, no cry;
No, woman, no cry.
Woman, little darlin, say dont shed no tears;
No, woman, no cry.

Eh! (little darlin, dont shed no tears!
No, woman, no cry.
Little sister, dont shed no tears!
No, woman, no cry.)

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Already the top 1% owns 40% of global assets; the top 10% 85% of them; the top 1% in the US controls one-third of the nation's wealth; the bottom 80% just 15.3%; and the top 20% 84.7%. In contrast, the poorest 20% are in debt, owe more than they own, and it's getting worse.

Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked
By Stephen Lendman

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

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Endymion wrote:

Already the top 1% owns 40% of global assets; the top 10% 85% of them; the top 1% in the US controls one-third of the nation's wealth; the bottom 80% just 15.3%; and the top 20% 84.7%. In contrast, the poorest 20% are in debt, owe more than they own, and it's getting worse.

Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked
By Stephen Lendman

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

Me being at the bottom, I don't need to be told these things. I see them daily.

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thanks for posting edgar - i respect what you've said - i've got to think about all this
i'll post later

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Endymion wrote:

Already the top 1% owns 40% of global assets; the top 10% 85% of them; the top 1% in the US controls one-third of the nation's wealth; the bottom 80% just 15.3%; and the top 20% 84.7%. In contrast, the poorest 20% are in debt, owe more than they own, and it's getting worse.

Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked
By Stephen Lendman

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

No reason why you can't go out and make your own buck...

Or maybe you are too busy counting what other's have?

Besides, wealth is not measured in dollars and cents anyway. There are many poor miserable rich people, and the stingiest of them are provably on the LEFT. (keep that in mind)

As for Michael Moore, are we talking about the same movie and man? (I didn't say Rodger Moore)

Apparently you don't know the U.S. I know and live in daily. I am not saying all is rosy but it certainly is not Columbine and hillbillies on every street corner as Moore certainly implies in his documentary.

I for one have lived in this country for over 40 years and have never owned a gun and neither have 99.9% of my friends.

But if Michael tells people what we are long enough maybe it will stick. You seem to have swallowed his slander hook, line and sinker.

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Happy International Day of Non-violence!

-Have a nice day, Endy Very Happy

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I'm not ignoring issues here - but this is rather urgent
and from the very respected and legal
Stop The War Coalition UK

The Government has decided to ban a peaceful march called by the Stop the War Coalition on 8 October.The protest has been called to demand all the troops withdrawn from Iraq immediately.The police have said all protests within one mile of Parliament are now prohibited. This is an affront to democratic rights and contradicts the Prime Minister's commitment to liberalising protest laws. We urge the authorities to review this decision.

to sign petition
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

MONDAY 8 OCTOBER 2007: MARCH TO PARLIAMENT, IN DEFIANCE OF THE BAN

Tony Benn, Brian Eno, Mark Thomas, Walter Wolfgang and Ben Griffin (ex SAS trooper) will head the march to Parliament in defiance of the ban. Make sure you are there to demand troops out and in defence of our civil liberties. It is vital that we defy the ban. Don't miss this demo.

Assemble at 1.00PM in Trafalgar Square

"If they are planning an Iranian attack they will have a public even more upset and disgruntled than before. This is what this tightening up is about ..Civil liberties never seem very important until you need them. At times like this we need to be re-inforcing them." Brian Eno

"This is rather a ham-fisted attempt to prevent us from demonstrating. What they (the government and police) do is up to them. We will just ignore them and we have the moral and logical high-ground. I will be marching on Monday 8 October." Mark Thomas

The 1839 Sessional Orders legislation has been dusted off to ban the 8 October Troops Out march.

Sessional Orders are passed at the beginning of every Parliamentary session under an 1839 law to ensure free passage for MP's to arrive and depart from Parliament. Similar Orders apply to the House of Lords.

Under the 2005 SOCPA legislation any march / demonstration in the vicinity of Parliament must be allowed to take place so long as a minimum of 6 days notice is given to the police.

Something more restrictive was needed so the 1839 legislation passed many years before this country had universal suffrage is now being used to attempt to ban the 8 October Troops Out march.

Since the march to Parliament is intended to be a peaceful attempt to alert Parliament to the feeling of the majority of the British public about the wars and occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and MP's themselves will be on the march this cannot be interpreted as obstructing the passage of members of Parliament.

To do so is an affront to the democratic rights of the people of this country and this is made clear in Tony Benn's letter to the Home Secretary which he delivered on Monday 1 October.

Tony Benn's letter to the Home Secretary

TO:

The Right Hon Jacqui Smith MP
Home Secretary
House of Commons
London
SW1A OAA
Monday October 1st 2007

Dear Home Secretary

LOBBY OF PARLIAMENT ON OCTOBER 8th

I am writing to you as President of the STOP THE WAR COALITION, to give you advance notice that there will be a demonstration in Trafalgar Square the day Parliament meets calling for the immediate withdrawal of all British troops from Iraq and Afghanistan at which I shall be speaking along with others.

Afterwards many of those present - including myself - will be marching along Whitehall to the House of Commons to meet MPs and urge them to support this call for a withdrawal, as I shall be doing in approaching Malcolm Rifkind my own local MP.

We shall be doing this in an orderly manner and I am making available to those who wish to have one, a postcard over my printed signature as a Privy Councillor, asking the police, and others to assist them.

I enclose a copy of this postcard.

The authority for this march derives from our ancient right to free speech and assembly enshrined in our history, of which we often boast and which we vigorously defended in two world wars.

I am copying this letter, and its enclosure, to Jack Straw, the Commissioner of the Metropolis, and as a courtesy, to the Prime Minister's office.

I hope that you will be able to re-assure me that those who demonstrate and march down Whitehall will enjoy your full support and the support of the police.

But it is only fair to tell you that the march will go ahead, in any case, and I will be among those marching.

Yours in peace

TONY BENN

Sessional Orders from 1839

"ORDERED, That the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis do take care that the passages through the streets leading to this House be kept free and open and that no obstruction be permitted to hinder the passage of Members to and from this House during the sitting of Parliament, or to hinder Members by any means in pursuit of their Parliamentary Estate; and that the Sergeant at Arms attending this House do communicate this Order to the Commissioner."
[/size]

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=346&Itemid=27

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I might also add that every time you log onto moveon dot org you are making one of the richest billionaires in the world even richer with all the ads and cookies deposited on you computer from the site that follow you around on the net... The underlined words that you copy and paste all over the place only link back to his "empire". Unlike Bill gates who has donated a large chunk of his fortune to the cure for aids and to colleges for greater learning in mathematics and medicine Soros has given NOTHING to the "poor"...

But does that matter? Instead of magnifying the problems others with a bit more integrity are working on "solutions".

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Endymion wrote:

I'm not ignoring issues here - but this is rather urgent
and from the very respected and legal
Stop The War Coalition UK

The Government has decided to ban a peaceful march called by the Stop the War Coalition on 8 October.The protest has been called to demand all the troops withdrawn from Iraq immediately.The police have said all protests within one mile of Parliament are now prohibited. This is an affront to democratic rights and contradicts the Prime Minister's commitment to liberalising protest laws. We urge the authorities to review this decision.

to sign petition
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

MONDAY 8 OCTOBER 2007: MARCH TO PARLIAMENT, IN DEFIANCE OF THE BAN

Tony Benn, Brian Eno, Mark Thomas, Walter Wolfgang and Ben Griffin (ex SAS trooper) will head the march to Parliament in defiance of the ban. Make sure you are there to demand troops out and in defence of our civil liberties. It is vital that we defy the ban. Don't miss this demo.

Assemble at 1.00PM in Trafalgar Square

"If they are planning an Iranian attack they will have a public even more upset and disgruntled than before. This is what this tightening up is about ..Civil liberties never seem very important until you need them. At times like this we need to be re-inforcing them." Brian Eno

"This is rather a ham-fisted attempt to prevent us from demonstrating. What they (the government and police) do is up to them. We will just ignore them and we have the moral and logical high-ground. I will be marching on Monday 8 October." Mark Thomas

The 1839 Sessional Orders legislation has been dusted off to ban the 8 October Troops Out march.

Sessional Orders are passed at the beginning of every Parliamentary session under an 1839 law to ensure free passage for MP's to arrive and depart from Parliament. Similar Orders apply to the House of Lords.

Under the 2005 SOCPA legislation any march / demonstration in the vicinity of Parliament must be allowed to take place so long as a minimum of 6 days notice is given to the police.

Something more restrictive was needed so the 1839 legislation passed many years before this country had universal suffrage is now being used to attempt to ban the 8 October Troops Out march.

Since the march to Parliament is intended to be a peaceful attempt to alert Parliament to the feeling of the majority of the British public about the wars and occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and MP's themselves will be on the march this cannot be interpreted as obstructing the passage of members of Parliament.

To do so is an affront to the democratic rights of the people of this country and this is made clear in Tony Benn's letter to the Home Secretary which he delivered on Monday 1 October.

Tony Benn's letter to the Home Secretary

TO:

The Right Hon Jacqui Smith MP
Home Secretary
House of Commons
London
SW1A OAA
Monday October 1st 2007

Dear Home Secretary

LOBBY OF PARLIAMENT ON OCTOBER 8th

I am writing to you as President of the STOP THE WAR COALITION, to give you advance notice that there will be a demonstration in Trafalgar Square the day Parliament meets calling for the immediate withdrawal of all British troops from Iraq and Afghanistan at which I shall be speaking along with others.

Afterwards many of those present - including myself - will be marching along Whitehall to the House of Commons to meet MPs and urge them to support this call for a withdrawal, as I shall be doing in approaching Malcolm Rifkind my own local MP.

We shall be doing this in an orderly manner and I am making available to those who wish to have one, a postcard over my printed signature as a Privy Councillor, asking the police, and others to assist them.

I enclose a copy of this postcard.

The authority for this march derives from our ancient right to free speech and assembly enshrined in our history, of which we often boast and which we vigorously defended in two world wars.

I am copying this letter, and its enclosure, to Jack Straw, the Commissioner of the Metropolis, and as a courtesy, to the Prime Minister's office.

I hope that you will be able to re-assure me that those who demonstrate and march down Whitehall will enjoy your full support and the support of the police.

But it is only fair to tell you that the march will go ahead, in any case, and I will be among those marching.

Yours in peace

TONY BENN

Sessional Orders from 1839

"ORDERED, That the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis do take care that the passages through the streets leading to this House be kept free and open and that no obstruction be permitted to hinder the passage of Members to and from this House during the sitting of Parliament, or to hinder Members by any means in pursuit of their Parliamentary Estate; and that the Sergeant at Arms attending this House do communicate this Order to the Commissioner."
[/size]

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=346&Itemid=27

You would only have a point when Al Qaeda calls off their own jihad. They have no plans of doing so. And there are no homosexuals in Iran... They have a special heap for the severed heads of liberals...

How are you going to call of their jihad? Should we let them murder all the innocent of Darfur too? Who is going to fight and die for peace and a democracy there? You seem to have a one track mind ignorant of the threat of Islamic fascism.

It would be nice if everyone was "pacifist"... the idealistic world does not exist.. Take off your rose colored glasses and take a look for once at the reality of the situation.

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Poor Joe Biden...

His plan to make a new Palestinian type state in Iraq... rich versus poor, ethnicity versus ethnicity, religion versus religion, has seemingly blown up in his face...

Maybe had he and his ilk on the left supported the president, with integrity and loyalty, this current political attempt at a unified democratic Iraq might have actually worked sooner rather than later. Had the US political left wing shown solidarity, the war in Iraq might be over by now, troops would be returning home... but the democrats would not have been credited in history for the "mission accomplished" would they?

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this is all bull-**** anyway

who cares?

we all go on about the politics - but who the f*ck's listening to what we think?

we just argue amongst ourselves because we don't know what else to do

when i started this thread i really hoped that others would contribute and make it something creative

As times gone on i've lost heart and that shows i think -

I wanted to help end the war in Iraq - that's why i started it. I think back then i never would have dreamed it could go on so long or be such a head-f*ck

If this thread turns into a political arena - i would want it to be shut down

E

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Endymion wrote:

this is all bull-**** anyway

who cares?

we all go on about the politics - but who the f*ck's listening to what we think?

we just argue amongst ourselves because we don't know what else to do

when i started this thread i really hoped that others would contribute and make it something creative

As times gone on i've lost heart and that shows i think -

I wanted to help end the war in Iraq - that's why i started it. I think back then i never would have dreamed it could go on so long or be such a head-f*ck

If this thread turns into a political arena - i would want it to be shut down

E

Then maybe you should have posted in the poetry forum instead of the original writing forum? (yet you post political links) Here is some original writing with no link at all... This kitchen is just getting hot...

I am a pacifist at heart just like you but I also balance that pacifism with some common horse sense...

Right now Iraq is stable for the most part, the surge seems (take and hold strategy) to have worked, there is talk of soldiers returning home soon. That is other than the constant smears by the left on our top generals and the San Francisco treatMENT of our loyal military recruiters keeping our nation safe from attack, fueled by the Soros billions that seem to be fixated on the downfall of the west.. and PURE HATRED of G. W. Bush, if you call hate a "reason"...

If the US/allies leave (as these idiotic protesters blindly insist upon) there will be a BLOOD BATH of the innocence (as in Darfur) and this blood bath/civil war and the deaths of millions of innocent people caught up in clerical evil grab and political fighting over once again OIL revenues for future terror funding around the globe... starting with eastern Europe, this death (while Iran and their hostage state watches on like a vulture) of the innocent will likely be on YOUR hands for fueling the retreat... Is this what you would prefer? Did you even think about that ONCE before you posted your link?

Who really in the US wanted this war anyway?

Bush didn't want it, his family is not gainig any revenue by our country being demeaned as a tyrant in the eyes of the world (Thanks again to the left's smears and LIES) ...

Yet the Clinton's seems to have their eyes on the UAE and what the hell is that all about? Who is screaming about that? While they are bating the ignorant US public for the presidency? Secret deals with the "sheik"... I would like to tap them phone conversations old Billy boy! No wonder they want to KILL the patriot act... There is so much hypocrisy in the left these days that "white water" has become the rule of the day!

And Pelosi points her crooked finger at the "culture of corruption"? She has three fingers pointing back at her (pork belly) self!

The truth is sometimes hard to face isn't it? They just shoved the only man I felt really comfortable about voting for, "Gingrich" out of the way... (other than Jeb) threatened him with lawsuits and the Goldman Feinstein Act whatever...

I think Newt really honestly doesn't want the headaches the left has already prepared for him under the guidance of Soros an his "move on the whore" website...

I don't mean my remarks directed toward to you personally Endymion but you should realize you are not seeing the whole picture... Maybe you should watch "fox news" once in a while? Even Fox news leans too far left sometimes for my taste. (and I am a moderate!) How far does the right have to bend over backwards to get royally phu***d by the left???

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RexRed wrote:

I am a pacifist at heart just like you but I also balance that pacifism with some common horse sense...

Right now Iraq is stable for the most part, the surge seems (take and hold strategy) to have worked .....

As a "pacifist" you surely could not have supported the opportunistic & unwarranted invasion of Iraq by the US & it's coalition partners?

Iraq is "stable" right now? You have an interesting understanding of stability which I & many others, I'm sure, would find rather baffling.

And the "surge" has worked? You really think so? I'd be fascinated to hear your arguments in support of this, in-depth! ... but please, on your own "politics" thread, not here. (That is the best place to debate contentious political issues, as you'd know. I'm absolutely certain you'll get lots on interesting feedback & debate!)

In anticipation to visiting your new thread in the politics forum soon, Rex.

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msolga wrote:

RexRed wrote:
I am a pacifist at heart just like you but I also balance that pacifism with some common horse sense...

Right now Iraq is stable for the most part, the surge seems (take and hold strategy) to have worked .....

As a "pacifist" you surely could not have supported the opportunistic & unwarranted invasion of Iraq by the US & it's coalition partners?

Iraq is "stable" right now? You have an interesting understanding of stability which I & many others, I'm sure, would find rather baffling.

And the "surge" has worked? You really think so? I'd be fascinated to hear your arguments in support of this, in-depth! ... but please, on your own "politics" thread, not here. (That is the best place to debate contentious political issues, as you'd know. I'm absolutely certain you'll get lots on interesting feedback & debate!)

In anticipation to visiting your new thread in the politics forum soon, Rex.

NOW LOOK WHO IS TRYING TO SILENCE THE OPPOSITION!!! This is my new thread! I have claimed it I am your "revolution" for the law of liberty! If you don't know what the law of liberty is then you are too busy spreading your terror to stop and understand the SPIRIT of TRUTH!

Our army is only being driven out of Iraq by the left. Over time we will win the peace and minds in Iraq... (if the kids read the text books we have written for them in their schools) All there needs to be is a new generation of Iraqis who grow up in the law of liberty and leave behind the old hatreds bred into them by the fanatical Islamists. And who is going to drive the greatest military force on the face of the earth out of Iraq? Right now it is the left wing wussyfists.

You seem to forget that this is a discussion thread too!!! It being in the original writing forum and not the politics forum is only a ploy.

This is a scam...

I will also mention that if this was a right wing anti homo thread where hate was being filtered out by the right wing fundamental so called "Christians" (who I might add don't know even what Christ Jesus represented) they would be coming after me with burning wooded crosses, nails, pitchforks and shovels..

Shame on you all!

I'm not leaving as long as the dirge is being posted daily here. I quite like it here. Tone down your crap and maybe you might LEARN something.

Declaration (law) of independence (liberty)... You're all lemmings!

Now was that "original writing"???

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Okay, I've thought about all this long and hard and on reflection, I think Rex has a point regarding this being a Creative Writing Forum.

From here on, CREATIVE INPUT ONLY

If you write anti-war/ant-capitalist poetry or similar - feel free to leave it here for others to read

I keep in mind

"Speaking The Truth in Times of Universal Deceit IS a Revolutionary Act."

-- George Orwell

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