lostnsearching
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 05:59 pm
Endymion wrote:


the other night i wrote something about revenge (concerning child abusers) and it was a really profound experience (which took 3 hours)
i posted it up in response to people calling for revenge here

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2873212#2873212

It was very painful to write and i don't know - but the response is so typical (apart from Francis - thanks Francis) no one says a f*cking word - to either agree or disagree. It's just BLANK

That got me down on top of other **** this week


I read that one a couple of nights ago...although it did get me thinking another way, I didn't know 'exactly' how to respond to it...
but it does require a hell of courage to have faith in such beliefs....

"May the power be with all...." Smile

Have a nice weekend

Regards
Naima
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 07:39 pm
Ha!

I was pissed when i posted that and I tried to delete it - but i could only delete the even more piss-poor post i'd written after it

guess i don't get off the hook that easy.

Yeah well, that thing i wrote about revenge - i feel it is the only way to be if we want to create a worthwhile society - but there's a part of me that also wants justice - and in a lot of cases, i don't know what justice would be.

I heard that people were calling for George Bush to be executed (Americans)
the other day.

I hate that man - but i think they're wrong
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 07:41 pm
Hope you have a good weekend too, Naima
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 08:38 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Endymion wrote:


the other night i wrote something about revenge (concerning child abusers) and it was a really profound experience (which took 3 hours)
i posted it up in response to people calling for revenge here

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2873212#2873212

It was very painful to write and i don't know - but the response is so typical (apart from Francis - thanks Francis) no one says a f*cking word - to either agree or disagree. It's just BLANK

That got me down on top of other **** this week


I have not been following that thread, because it hurts me to read all the revenge notions posted there. I agree that the first objective is to make our children safe; to give to them an environment in which they can thrive and grow into sane adults. The ones who rape children need to be removed from society. If it be necessary, never to return. But, to extract the sort of revenge we read about; that's wrong.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:30 am
I'm very glad to hear you say that, Edgar

I couldn't help noting on that thread that mostly everyone against revenge is from Europe or Australia - and almost everyone calling for revenge is from America.

There must be a reason why more Americans 'believe' in revenge.
I think the guy calling for car thieves to be sodomized was the last straw (since then i haven't bothered reading the thread either)
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 07:46 am
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44139000/jpg/_44139506_monksap66.jpg UPDATE

Hope Wanes Among Protesters in Myanmar

(09-29) 23:52 PDT YANGON, Myanmar (AP) --

Thousands of soldiers and police were deployed in Myanmar's largest cities Sunday, keeping even the most die-hard protesters off the streets, and more arrests were reported, further demoralizing dissidents desperate for democracy.

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/09/30/mn_myanmar_protest_3.jpg

The forces were deployed as the top U.N. envoy on Myanmar, Ibrahim Gambari, was in the country trying to persuade the military rulers to end a deadly crackdown on demonstrators that has sparked international outcry.

Many protesters said that despite that effort they were seeing a repeat of the global reaction to a 1988 pro-democracy uprising, when the world stood by as protesters were gunned down.

"I don't think it will make much of a difference," said one hotel worker, who like other residents asked not to be named, fearing retaliation. "We have to find a solution ourselves."

A senior Japanese official headed for Myanmar on Sunday to press the military government to move toward democracy and to protest the killing of Japanese journalist Kenji Nagai during the crackdown on protesters. Deputy Foreign Minister Mitoji Yabunaka was to arrive in Yangon by Sunday evening, according to a ministry official who spoke on condition of anonymity in line with policy.

Soldiers and police have been posted on almost all corners in the cities of Yangon and Mandalay. Shopping malls, grocery stores and public parks were closed and few people dared to venture out of their homes.

A young woman who took part in a massive demonstration in Yangon Thursday said she didn't think "we have any more hope to win." She was separated from her boyfriend when police broke up the protest by firing into crowds and has not seen him since.

"The monks are the ones who give us courage," she said. Most of the clerics, whose participation helped the protests grow dramatically, are now besieged in their monasteries behind locked gates and barbed wire.

The number of troops in Yangon, the largest city, swelled to around 20,000 after reinforcements arrived overnight Sunday, ensuring that almost all demonstrators would remain off the streets, an Asian diplomat said.

"The security forces are demonstrating their strength," said the diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity, citing protocol. "I think the chance of protesters coming to the road and mobilizing enough people to topple the junta is zero."

People suspected of leading or organizing this week's rallies continue to be arrested, he said, estimating that the total number could be as high as 1,000. They joined an estimated 1,100 other political detainees languishing in jails since much before the current turmoil began.

With the main prison now overcrowded, people are now being detained in university buildings and educational institutes, he said.

Gambari was taken on arrival Saturday to Naypyitaw, the remote, bunker-like capital where the country's military leaders are based. The White House urged the junta to allow him to have access to Aung San Suu Kyi ?- the Nobel Peace Prize laureate who is under house arrest ?- and ordinary Myanmar residents.

The demonstrations began last month as people angry over massive fuel price hikes took to the streets ?- then mushroomed into the tens of thousands after the monks began marching.

The junta, which has a long history of snuffing out dissent, started cracking down Wednesday, when the first of at least 10 deaths was reported, and then let loose on Thursday, shooting into a crowd of protesters and clubbing them with batons.

The crackdown triggered an unprecedented verbal flaying of Myanmar's generals from almost every corner of the world ?- even some criticism from No. 1 ally China.

But little else that might stay the junta's heavy hand is seen in the foreseeable future.

The United States, which exercises meager leverage, froze any assets that 14 Myanmar leaders may have in U.S. financial institutions and prohibited American citizens from doing business with them. The leaders, including Than Shwe, are believed to have few if any such connections.

The United Nations has compiled a lengthy record of failure in trying to broker reconciliation between the junta and Suu Kyi. Gambari's efforts have been stymied, while his predecessor, Razali Ismail, was snubbed or sometimes barred from entry by the State Peace and Development Council, as the ruling junta is formally known.

The United States, Japan and others have turned a hopeful eye on China ?- Myanmar's biggest trading partner ?- as the most likely outside catalyst for change.

But China, India and Russia do not seem prepared to go beyond words in their dealings with the junta, ruling out sanctions as they jostle for a chance to get at Myanmar's bountiful and largely untapped natural resources, especially its oil and gas.

"Unless and until Beijing, Delhi and Moscow stand in unison in pressuring the SPDC for change, little will change," says Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

Some Chinese academics and diplomats say the international community may be overestimating what Beijing can do.

"I actually don't think China can influence Burma at all except through diplomacy. China's influence is not at all decisive," said Peking University Southeast Asia expert Liang Yingming.

India has switched from a vocal opponent of the junta to one currying favor with the generals as it struggles to corner energy supplies for its own rapidly expanding economy.

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or ASEAN, a 10-member bloc which includes Myanmar, also has given no indication that it is considering an expulsion or any other action.

As governments heap criticism on the junta, Myanmar and foreign activists continue to call for concrete, urgent action.

"The world cannot fail the people of Burma again," said the National Coalition Government of the Union of Burma, an exile group based in Washington. "Selfless sacrifices deserve more than words and lip-service. They want effective intervention before it is too late."

___

Associated Press reporters Denis D. Gray, Jim Gomez, Sutin Wannabovorn, Matthew Streib, Chisaki Watanabe and Tim Sullivan contributed to this report.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/09/29/international/i104953D84.DTL&tsp=1

(Burma conflict: background information (BBC) (msolga's thread)

http://www.able2know.org/forums/about104283-10.html
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 07:56 am
A Question of Honour

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article2469088.ece
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 08:01 am
G'day, Endy.
Still reading.
Grim times, hey? Sad
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 08:05 am
Too true

I like your new thread, Olga - please give my regards to Walter

Peace,
Endy
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 08:27 am
Endymion wrote:
Too true

I like your new thread, Olga - please give my regards to Walter.


I didn't want to clog up this thread, Endy, with all that background material. Some of it I was researching to improve my own undertstanding of the situation in Burma. Couldn't think of any other thread to post it to.

Am I missing something about Walter? Some reason why it's not possible for you to send him your regards, personally? (I read a bit of that thread & thought it best to stay out. (!) Besides, others were arguing the "anti-revenge" argument very well, anyway.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:22 pm
yeah, that thread is over

As for Walter - You are right - i should PM him myself. But I wont.
I'm sure he'll be relieved to hear that!

But I know i should - I've been doing a lot of research on WWI (and also a bit on WWII).
It has been quite an eye-opener.

I think i've been surprised at how much respect i've gained for 'Jerry' camped out there in the trenches. (considering that I was brought up to see it otherwise) I've heard some incredible stories - the battle of Langemark being one that really got to me.

I know it's stupid, but even though i'd like to talk to Walter (and other Germans) about WWI - i find it difficult - honestly- to talk to anyone... even you. : )

I've been reading your thread (I think it was a great idea) on which Walter has been contributing and then when someone made a racist comment which affected him, I suppose I felt some solidarity, or something. I wanted to send him my regards - but I'm a recluse, remember?

Sorry if it was the wrong thing to say to you, Olga
I wasn't meaning to treat you like a f*cking messenger or something - you see why I don't like talking to people?

I always end up saying the wrong things - and having to explain myself
so whats the point?
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:28 pm
http://staging.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/bushcrimefam2.jpg

War Criminal

"A lot of people talk about impeaching Mr. Bush,
which should have been done certainly by now,
but impeachment is too good for him.
The man is a war criminal."
-- Michael Moore


http://www.michaelmoore.com/
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 10:01 pm
Telegraph UK
US trains Gulf air forces for war with Iran

By Tim Shipman in Washington

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/30/wiran130.xml
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 10:17 pm
Bush and Cheney's Private Gestapo
by Tom Degan

http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 10:22 pm
Everybody take good care, okay?
Look out for each other
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 02:09 am
Endymion wrote:
Senate Approves Resolution Denouncing MoveOn.org Ad

September 21st, 2007 5:51 pm


By David M. Herszenhorn / New York Times

WASHINGTON, Sept. 20 ?- The Senate approved a resolution on Thursday denouncing the liberal antiwar group MoveOn.org over an advertisement that questioned the credibility of Gen. David H. Petraeus, the American commander in Iraq.

MoveOn.org, with 3.2 million members, has become a powerful force in Democratic politics and the advertisement it paid for, which appeared in The New York Times, has come under sharp attack from Congressional Republicans and others as unpatriotic and impugning the integrity of General Petraeus.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Senator Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, both Democratic candidates for president, voted against the resolution, which passed 72 to 25.

But curiously absent from the vote was Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, also a Democratic candidate for president, who had canceled a campaign appearance in South Carolina so he could be in Washington for votes.

Mr. Obama issued a statement calling the resolution, put forward by Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, "a stunt." Mr. Obama said, "By not casting a vote, I registered my protest against these empty politics."

Mr. Obama had voted minutes earlier in favor of an extremely similar resolution proposed by Senator Barbara Boxer, Democrat of California.

Ms. Boxer's proposal, which failed, called for the Senate to "strongly condemn all attacks on the honor, integrity and patriotism" of anyone in the United States armed forces. It did not mention the MoveOn.org ad. Mr. Dodd and Mrs. Clinton also voted in favor of Ms. Boxer's proposal.

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, who is also seeking the Democratic nomination, was in Iowa and did not vote.

At a White House news conference, President Bush called the advertisement disgusting and said it was an attack not only on General Petraeus but also on the entire American military.

"And I was disappointed that not more leaders in the Democrat Party spoke out strongly against that kind of ad," Mr. Bush said. "And that leads me to come to this conclusion: that most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like MoveOn.org ?- or more afraid of irritating them than they are of irritating the United States military."

Representative Thomas M. Davis III, Republican of Virginia, has urged the House to hold hearings on the MoveOn.org ad and to investigate whether The Times gave the group an improper discount. A New York Times Company spokeswoman has said that the group paid a standard "standby" rate.

MoveOn.org lashed out at Mr. Bush's comments and pledged to double its spending on ads criticizing Republican lawmakers for blocking efforts by Democrats to change the war strategy. Eli Pariser, executive director of MoveOn.org Political Action, said, "What's disgusting is that the president has more interest in political attacks than developing an exit strategy to get our troops out of Iraq and end this awful war."

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=10260


http://www.moveon.org/images/home/main_billboard/sitdown3.gif

Join more than 3,000,000 members online, get instant action updates and make a difference.

http://www.moveon.org/


Um, there is a BIG difference between free speech and hate speech.

Hate speech obstructs the right to the "pursuit of happiness" for all. Liberty does have it's limits.

I would think that would be obvious... but I guess not to some.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 02:17 am
Endymion wrote:
Sorry if it was the wrong thing to say to you, Olga
I wasn't meaning to treat you like a f*cking messenger or something - you see why I don't like talking to people?

I always end up saying the wrong things - and having to explain myself
so whats the point?


Absolutely no sense of grievance from me, Endy.
Absolutely no reason to apologize. Really!
And you haven't said the "wrong thing".
BTW I haven't noticed you "always saying the wrong thing." Quite the opposite! What you say makes perfectly good sense to me.
I genuinely thought (in my fleeting perusal of that thread) that I must had missed something. (I am so rushed these days - sometimes I really do miss things.)

So, Endy, please continue posting & we will continue reading! Very Happy

Cheers,
Olga
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 04:38 am
Burmese villagers 'trained' for pro-govt demonstrations
By Foreign affairs editor Peter Cave and wires/ABC news online
Posted 5 hours 55 minutes ago /1/10/2007
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200710/r188058_703078.jpg
The huge security presence has largely succeeded in preventing more of last week's protests. (Reuters)

Burma's main city Rangoon remains tense as hundreds of heavily armed troops and police round-up truckloads of villagers from rural districts, apparently to take part in pro-government demonstrations.

At least 1,000 villagers from the township of Tachilek near the Thai border were were loaded onto military vehicles and taken to an army camp in Kengtung around 250 kilometres away.

Relatives were told the people were to be trained to take part in pro-government demonstrations and demonstrations against the monks who have led pro-democracy protests.


The huge security presence has largely succeeded in preventing more of last week's protests which the army responded to with violence, as the Burmese military tightens its grip on Rangoon.

A massive security operation is now smothering the city, making protests almost impossible, a menacing atmosphere in which diplomacy is finally being attempted.

United Nations special envoy Ibrahim Gambari has been to meet Burma's reclusive generals at their new capital, but so far has not seen senior general Than Shwe.

The UN is trying as it has for years to find a mechanism to bridge Burma's profound political divide, but UN sources in Rangoon say the generals appear to be in no mood to compromise.

- ABC/BBC

http://www.abc.com.au/news/stories/2007/10/01/2047933.htm
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 07:07 am
RexRed wrote:

Um, there is a BIG difference between free speech and hate speech.

Hate speech obstructs the right to the "pursuit of happiness" for all. Liberty does have it's limits.

I would think that would be obvious... but I guess not to some.


I think I understand what you're saying here, Rex

But here's the rub...

Roanoke Neo-Nazi Condemns Jena Six: William A. White Posted the Youths' Addresses on a Web Site That Calls for Lynching the Group.
From: The Roanoke Times | Date: 9/21/2007

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1Y1-110585093.html

On his site, Roanoke published contact information for the six youths headlined: "Addresses of Jena 6 N---s; In case anyone wants to deliver justice."

In a second item, White was quoted as saying: "If these n----s are released or acquitted, we will find out where they live and make sure that white activists and white citizens in Louisiana know it ... in order to find someone willing to deliver justice."

Now then - no one in the white house is saying anything about this site
Despite the fact that the families of those boys have had their lives turned up side down and have had to leave their own homes out of fear.

But they jump on moveon.org for criticizing a General ??

I find that highly amusing
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 07:21 am
Arrests as Faslane protest ends


More than 160 people have been arrested at a protest marking the end of a year of blockades against nuclear submarines at the Faslane naval base on the Clyde.

Organisers Faslane 365 said the Big Blockade was the final event in their non-violent protest at the base, which houses the UK's Trident missiles.

Protesters chained themselves to the fence at the base near Helensburgh, while others blocked the road nearby.

Faslane officials said the protests have had little effect on its work.

Strathclyde Police confirmed that 71 men and 97 women have been arrested so far.

Anti-nuclear demonstrators from around the world have visited the base to join the protest over the past year.

Trident replacement

During the final event, protesters started blockading the gates of the base from early in the morning.

About a dozen protesters blocked the entrance to the main gate by lying on the ground with their arms linked by tubes.

Police used special cutting equipment to free them and then carried the demonstrators away.

Other protesters blocked the A814 to Garelochhead.

Motorists were urged to avoid the area around the base until the protest was over.

MSPs and MEPs also joined the Big Blockade which was backed by Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond.

In March, MPs voted in support of the UK Government's plans to renew the country's nuclear submarine system - an issue reserved to Westminster.

The SNP administration in Scotland oppose any such renewal.

Scottish Green MSPs Robin Harper and Patrick Harvie said they would attend to show opposition to the replacement of Trident.

Mr Harper said: "The use, the threat of use, and the planned replacement of Trident are all illegal.

"We should take a lead in fighting the wars of this century - the war against poverty, injustice and environmental destruction - not spend £25bn on weapons of mass destruction aimed at civilians."

Scottish National Party MSP Sandra White said: "I congratulate all those who have taken part in the Faslane 365 campaign this past year.

"This is the most important event in the Scottish calendar this year because we can no longer afford both morally and financially to have these weapons of mass destruction on our shores."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7020833.stm


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44148000/jpg/_44148571_faslanearrestsgetty203.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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