Why is any criticism of a culture considered racist?

Stuh, it's late, a2k is slow - sorry for short answers.

Racism defines a way of thinking which generalizes attributes based on skin color (or maybe ethnicity). We all can see that people who are black generally (but, not neccesarily) have darker skin than those who are white. You also mentioned that you one might thnk those people act in similar way - not so easy to define.

I do have friends who are racist. I do not have friends who are racist and who do not reflect on what that means.

I mentioned the difference between bias/racist and discrimination because you seemed to be confusing the two concepts.

Snood, I do not see our culture as THE standard for human behavior; I do not see other cultures as failed attempts to think and behave as we do. In other words I am not an ETHNOCENTRIST.
Nevertheless, I do consider the way America treats women superior to the way Saudi Arabians treat women. But that is merely an expression of my internalized standards in this regard. I recognize that our treatment of women is far from fair, mature and rational, and I recognize that many Arab women accept their gender roles as reasonable and "natural"--even ordained by God. In other words, while I do have my cultural biases, I am still a cultural relativist, But I CANNOT accept the clitorectomy practiced in some cultures even if it is accepted by many of the women in those cultures.
I am not a RACIST in that I believe that members of other cultures--regardless of their somatic characteristics--will think, value, and behave as do other Americans if they are raised in our culture. In other words, physical characteristics do not determine worldview and behavior.

Yes, this is an example in which criticism of another culture is entirely warranted and does not (necessarily) result from an ethnocentric bias. I gather you are not criticizing the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia because it's contrary to the treatment of women in America; you are criticizing it because it's contrary to your broader beliefs about human rights. Cultural relativism can be an admirable sentiment, but not if it interferes with more basic, and in my view more important, beliefs about human rights.

Setanta, as usual, bloviates without addressing the question. He is the quintessential windbag who attempts to obfuscate the answer by drowning the thread in useless verbiage.

Again, let us address the question of the thread-

l. Is it racist to criticize another culture?

First, one must look up the definition of racist, which it is clear, the all-knowing Setanta did not do. I invite anyone to find a definition of racist from a standard dictionary which does not include the the point that a racist feels that a person who is described as belonging to a race has essential inherent characteristics which are indelible by virtue of his or her membership in a certain race.

Second, after all the blah-blah by the oh so liberal and humanist left wing, they would have us believe that it was racist for the British to proclaim a law against Suttee( the babarous practice involving the ritual suicide of a widow( whose husband has just expired) by hurling herself on the funeral pyre. Humanists like Setanta would likewise proclaim their opposition to the defamation of another culture which insists on the extremely painlful and psychologically debilitating practice of Clitoridoitectomy.

Only blabbers like Setnata and know nothings like Snood would hold such doubtful positions.

Marion, the position you take here against liberals and humanists is so simplistic, it has strong similarities to racism.
This is a comment that is not intended as an invitation to debate with you. Your way of thinking is not something I would like to engage--too wierd!

JL Nobody- I think you are unable to rebut my argument. That is why you are dissimulating.

You show your ignorance about racism. Look up the definition. If you did, you would know the following:


rac·ism (rszm) KEY

NOUN:

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


IT IS NOT RACISM THAT ACCOUNTS FOR DIFFERENCES IN HUMAN CHARACTER OR ABILITY ---IT IS CULTURE.

If you are really interested in learning why the above is true, I refer you to the very highly acclaimed and erudite book, which is truly specific to this subject--"Race and Culture" by the highly learned African-American Scholar-Dr. Thomas Sowell.

Here is a quote from his book-

P. 1

quote

"Despite prevailing "social science" approaches which depict people as creatures of their surrounding environment, or as victims of social institutions immediately impinging on them, both emigrants and conquerors have carried THIER OWN PATTERNS OF SKILS AND BEHAVIOR- THEIR CULTURES-to the farthest reaches of the planet, in the most radically different societies, and these patterns have often persisted for generations or even centuries. The role of a particular people's cultural equipment or HUMAN CAPITAL is much clearer in an international perspective than in the history of one country"


Read that over a couple of times, JlNobody!

I can only laugh.

I assure you, Ms. Ossobuco, Dr. Sowell's book is not a joke book. Give it a try and you may indeed find that it is stimulating reading.

Marion, what is your point?

My point- JL Nobody is that criticism of a culture is NOT racism, as held by the bloviating gasbag, Setanta. If you will carefully re-read my posts you will discover that there is evidence to show that one can not only criticize other cultures without being held to be a racist( see definition of racist) but that one MUST criticize other cultures when they indulge in obviously inhuman and despicable actions such as suicide by immolation on a deceased husband's funeral pyre as a given and the practice of clitoridectomy in Africa. Anyone professing to be a humanist liberal cannot, by definition, be in favor of such despicable practices.

That is the point. If you don't understand it, try reading Dr. Sowell's "Race and Culture".

Hey, what a coinkydink - Bernard used to bring up Sowell as if he was some kind of transcendent and prophetic intellect, too!



JLN - thanks for the explanation, but I hadn't thought you were racist or ethnocentric, that I remember. Did I seem to suggest you were?

You might have confused JLN with me whom you have more than suggested to be racist.

No, Snood, I didn't take your comments as suggesting that I was a racist. Not at all.
And I can't imagine how anyone would suspect Dys of racism. Insanity perhaps.

Dr. Thomas Sowell is an African-American who is widely considered to be one of the best researchers in the USA. He is quite different from the below average IQ African-Americans from the ghetto who have bought into the race carders' garbage about the racist American culture which keep all of the African-Americans down. I have no doubt that it he had not been an African-American, Snood would be now a senator from Texas-

LOL LOL LOL

I save Snood's posts in my "utter stupidity" file!

Aw jeez, dys, you startin up with me again? What precisely are you refering to? Peace, man - peace!!??!

and JLN knew what I was talking about.

peace is totally cool with me but I remain an atheist.

Here is what the mentally challenged Snood will never understand about an African-American he should be inspired to imitate.

Dr. Sowell clearly shows that the failings of African-Americans in academics are tied to a dysfunctional culture in which "hoops" and "rap" and "hos" are the controlling ideas. Dr. Sowell shows the utter weakness of the old and tired argument that "socio-economics" and not "culture" is the controlling element in keeping many African-Americans from achieving in academics.

quote from "Race and Culture" P. 172

"While test scores usually correlate with family income or parental occupations in the general population, such socioeconomic indicators do not explain many intergroup differences. The Chinese children tested in Hong Kong came from families less affluent than the English children whom they outperformed on nonverbal tests. In the United States, Blacks of above average socioeconomic status have not averaged as high IQ as whites of lower socioeconomic status, and neither Blacks, Mexican-Americans, not American Indians from families of incomes of $50,000 and above scored as well on the quantitative portion of the SAT in 1981 as Asian Americans from families with incomes of $16,000 or less. The environment that matters for the purpose may be cultural rather than economic."


Even Cosby has encouraged African-Americans to drop their focus on "hoops", "rap" and "hos" but race carders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who wish to remain in power keep grinding out the race card which identifies Blacks as "victims" under the heel of a racist USA.

Possum, just how often have you been under a "hold and treat" order for a mental health psychotic break?

The failings of blacks in academics is due to a series of things. One of Sowell's tenets (from a quick review of his philosophy) is to avoid generalizaions - he says race issues are complex. And they are. What do you think the ho culture to which you refer stems from? Partly, it is because there is very little economic agility available to them. THAT, is indeed a cultural problem, but not one of the black society - it is a problem in the white society. We (big generalization coming) don't give people of color jobs if we can find someone else to do it.

And how long have you been unable to read, Dys? If you had any cojones at all, you would show you are man( you are, aren't you) and you would gather up evidence to show I am in error., But you are really too dyslexic to do that, aren't you?