3
   

Fear sells Better than Sex

 
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:04 pm
I thought you said fear smells better than sex
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 06:28 pm
Thanks for the information Anton. Here for 66 years I thought the U.S. had declared war on Germany in 41. Perhaps you can come on some other thread and nitpick.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 06:47 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
Finn
"The US actually declared war on Nazi Germany. Did that represent a legitimization of Nazi Germany? "
Delaring war against a nsty regime is something but declaring a war against omnipoten, omnipresent group of criminals is something else.
Is it not foolish to wage a war against invisible hidden barbaric group which has no address?
Nazi Germany has location and address while terrorists have none


But they do have addresses. Part of the war effort is to find them. In any case, Anton's argument of legitimization is something quite different.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 07:03 pm
anton wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
anton wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
A very cynical take on a simple, and reasonable attempt to protect us from real danger. Sorry, but the world is a dangerous place, and that's not a conspiracy to frighten you, just an unfortunate fact.


Why legitimize terrorists by declaring war on them, anyone who uses terror to wage war against the masses is an outright criminal; they are nothing less than murdering thugs and they should be identified as such. The Bush regime has used the fear of terrorism to control the populace and manipulate the American judicial system; the Bush administration obviously doesn't understand that torture is terrorism and those who execute the barbaric practice are no better than the terrorists they are against. The world was a much safer place before the GW Bush presidency, I am more afraid of the Bush regime than I am of Osama Bin Laden!


Frankly, it is absurd to suggest that by declaring war on terrorists, they are legitimized.

The US actually declared war on Nazi Germany. Did that represent a legitimization of Nazi Germany?

Somehow I doubt that you would approve of alternative phrasing like "We declare we will eradicate, obliterate, render unto nothingness terrorists."

It is ironic in the extreme when Liberals urge us to consider terrorists as criminals rather than enemies because the latter legitimizes them. Since when did a Liberal not consider a criminal "legitimate?" In fact, Liberals tend to demand that we recognize that criminals are "legitimate" human beings.

If you are more afraid of Bush led America that Bin Laden led Al Queda, your are, undoubtedly, a person without serious thought.


To begin with the US did not declare war on Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the same time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, it was then that a state of war existed between the US and Germany; initially the US wanted nothing to do with the war which they referred to as "that European war" … Britain and her Commonwealth stood alone against the might of the Third Reich for just over two years before America was dragged into the fray.

How do you declare war on terror, my wife is terrified of snakes, are they included in this war and what about my Dentist, I'm no too fond of him?
How can you declare war on terror, terrorism is not an enemy it is a method, war is made on an identifiable enemy; by declaring war on thugs and murderers you are giving them an identity, you are recognising them as a legitimate military opponent.
A terrorist act is a brutal, inhumane, barbaric method of terrifying people just as the act of torture is and you can't fight one with the other, no more than you can spread democracy at the point of a gun.

Incidently I am not a Liberal, I vote Labor in Australia and if anything I am a realist!


If you vote Labor in Oz, you are a Liberal by American standards.

You scolded Brandon for legitmizing terrorists by declaring war on them. That is the assertion to which I responded. Now you shift to some quasi-philosophical argument about declaring war on terror. Make up your mind.

As MM has confirmed, the US did declare war on Nazi Germany, and all the blather of your retort to him is irrelevant. You obviously accept the fact that the US declared war on Imperial Japan. Do you think this resulted in a legitimization of its identity or actions?

Further on you have reiterated your nonsensical opinion that the US entered WWII after it was already won, and for profit to boot. You and I have gone round on this before. You didn't offer a serious substantiation of your claim then and I am not sanguine that you will now. In fact, in your rambling response to MM you use some of the very arguments I made to you concerning the altruism of the US entry --- namely it could easily have sat on the sideline and let the Old World destroy itself.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 07:13 pm
What makes you think it would have destroyed itself?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 10:24 pm
anton wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
To begin with the US did not declare war on Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the same time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, it was then that a state of war existed between the US and Germany; initially the US wanted nothing to do with the war which they referred to as "that European war" … Britain and her Commonwealth stood alone against the might of the Third Reich for just over two years before America was dragged into the fray.


You need to retract your statement.
The US DID declare war on Germany,on Dec 11, 1941.
For your education, here is a copy of that declaration...

http://207.61.100.164/cantext/wwii/1941usde.html


Perhaps you should read my post again where I said, "Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the same time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, it was then that a state of war existed between the US and Germany; that is a fact and if Hitler had not declared war on the US America would never have declared war on Germany, they would have continued to sit on the fence counting the dollars.
I am still wondering how you declare war on terror, perhaps it is an American thing?
Incidently I lived through the Second World War bombing and I thank God the US was dragged into the fight, it would have been a different story without their help but please do not believe your own fiction, America didn't save the world, the war was all but won when the US came in.
Please excuse me for getting off thread, I just find it so exasperating when some American's put their country forward as God's gift to mankind ... it is the only country that got rich of the back of the war!


And again you are wrong.
Here is a copy of the declaration of war, as handed to the US SecState by the German ambassador on dec 11, 1941

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/gerdec41.htm

You will see that Germany also declared war on the US on 12/11/1941.

And here...

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/dec/dec05.htm#dec

Scroll down and you will see the record of the proceedings in the house on 12/11/1941

So your claim that
Quote:
Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the same time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, it was then that a state of war existed between the US and Germany;


Is also not true.
Germany declared war 4 days AFTER the attack at Pearl Harbor.
Hitler was actually very upset that the Japanese had attacked Pearl because of the tri-partite pact they had signed.
That instrument said that if any of the signatories (Japan, Italy, and Germany) were attacked by a country not currently involved in the European conflict as of the date of the signing of the pact (27 Sept, 1940), the other 2 countries would come to their aid and defense.

Here is the text of the tripartite pact for your perusal.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/triparti.htm

Note this part here...

Quote:
Germany, Italy and Japan agree to co-operate in their efforts on aforesaid lines. They further undertake to assist one another with all political, economic and military means when one of the three contracting powers is attacked by a power at present not involved in the European war or in the Chinese-Japanese conflict


That was a direct warning to the US, and when Japan attacked the US Hitler knew that the US would come after him also.
He had tried to avoid having the US get involved in the war in Europe.

AS for your claim that
Quote:
the war was all but won when the US came in.


Lets examine that.
ALL of Europe, with the exception of Switzerland and England, was under German occupation.
England was being starved out by the German u-boat fleet, North Africa was occupied by the Germans.
The Japanese had control of most of the British territories in the Far East, with the exception of India and Australia.
The Germans were within shelling distance of Moscow.

Please, show me how you can honestly figure that the war was
Quote:
all but won when the US came in.


Now it is true that Germany could never have succeeded with a seaborne invasion of England, they did have the power to starve the British into submission.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 10:16 am
anton wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
A very cynical take on a simple, and reasonable attempt to protect us from real danger. Sorry, but the world is a dangerous place, and that's not a conspiracy to frighten you, just an unfortunate fact.


Why legitimize terrorists by declaring war on them, anyone who uses terror to wage war against the masses is an outright criminal; they are nothing less than murdering thugs and they should be identified as such. The Bush regime has used the fear of terrorism to control the populace and manipulate the American judicial system; the Bush administration obviously doesn't understand that torture is terrorism and those who execute the barbaric practice are no better than the terrorists they are against. The world was a much safer place before the GW Bush presidency, I am more afraid of the Bush regime than I am of Osama Bin Laden!


We did not declare war on terrorists. We declared war on terrorism. By that we said that we would no longer tolerate terrorism or slough it off as if there is nothing that can be done about it. We said that we will retaliate when it is committed against us and our interests.

Remember the color coding indicating terrorist threat levels following 9/11 and announcement of terrorist threats around the country? Some thought this bad because what could we do about it? Why scare everybody when there was nothing they could do? Others (me included) wanted to know.

If the administration knows about a threat and does not inform the population and something happens, those who despise the administration will accuse them of negligence and not caring. If the administration is planning or carrying out measures to defend us or our interests against known dangers and does not inform us, those who despise the administration will almost certainly accuse it of inappropriate secrecy or ulterior motives of some sort.

They will be damned if they do, and they will be damned if they don't. I for one want a government willing to do whatever is necessary to defend the country against all enemies within and without and also that will do whatever is necessary to protect and defend our military when boots are on the ground in harms way.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 10:22 pm
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2007 11:57 pm
spendius wrote:
What makes you think it would have destroyed itself?


Imagine WWII without American intervention.

What do you think would have been the outcome?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2007 11:58 pm
JTT wrote:
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.


Your are a ****, ain't you?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2007 06:30 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
JTT wrote:
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.


Your are a ****, ain't you?


So you're saying it did help?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2007 06:48 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
JTT wrote:
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.


Your are a ****, ain't you?


SPELLING, Finnius!!

Foxy's still repeating the same ole tripe. What happened was simply that you got payback. It was predicted long ago by your own CIA and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that terrorist activities done will inevitably bring terror back upon those who visit it on others.

There is no war on terror; at best it's a war between terrorists. And you've fuc*ked it up royally by wasting all your time and efforts in a place where there was no danger to you. Talk about brainless gorms! All you've done is succeeded in terrorizing another country, murdering numerous innocents, destroying their property.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2008 11:47 pm
snood wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
JTT wrote:
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.


Your are a ****, ain't you?


So you're saying it did help?


Hardly.

I suppose I can follow the route of your thoughts though:

Person A: "Snood you dumb ass fool, you've finally learned to read?"

Person B: "You (Person A) are really a ****, aint you?"

Person C: "So you agree Snood is a dumb ass fool who can't read."

So clever of you Snood, how am I to possibly counter your wit?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2008 11:56 pm
JTT wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
JTT wrote:
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.


Your are a ****, ain't you?


SPELLING, Finnius!!

You're a liar JTT (or you just make promises in quiet moments of sobreity than you simply can't keep)!!

Afterall you , not me, made the pledge. How long did it last? 48 hours?

BTW - congratulations on your never failing use of Spellcheck.



Foxy's still repeating the same ole tripe. What happened was simply that you got payback. It was predicted long ago by your own CIA and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that terrorist activities done will inevitably bring terror back upon those who visit it on others.

There is no war on terror; at best it's a war between terrorists. And you've fuc*ked it up royally by wasting all your time and efforts in a place where there was no danger to you. Talk about brainless gorms! All you've done is succeeded in terrorizing another country, murdering numerous innocents, destroying their property.

I'm not sure I'm spelling this correctly but Eff You you human blister. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2008 11:56 pm
JTT wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
JTT wrote:
Your time away at the rest home seemingly didn't help you at all.


Your are a ****, ain't you?


SPELLING, Finnius!!

You're a liar JTT (or you just make promises in quiet moments of sobreity than you simply can't keep)!!

Afterall you , not me, made the pledge. How long did it last? 48 hours?

BTW - congratulations on your never failing use of Spellcheck.



Foxy's still repeating the same ole tripe. What happened was simply that you got payback. It was predicted long ago by your own CIA and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that terrorist activities done will inevitably bring terror back upon those who visit it on others.

There is no war on terror; at best it's a war between terrorists. And you've fuc*ked it up royally by wasting all your time and efforts in a place where there was no danger to you. Talk about brainless gorms! All you've done is succeeded in terrorizing another country, murdering numerous innocents, destroying their property.

I'm not sure I'm spelling this correctly but Eff You you human blister. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2008 09:07 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing

hahahhahhahhh

just read through this thread - hilarious
i was some naive fool back then - thinking i'd even be able to get my thoughts together on this one... christ talk about squabbling! Its like standing in the middle of a playground listening to every direction shouting at once....

Laughing Laughing

who cares who won the ******* war back then? If you really want what I think
it was the Russians that saved us all from Hitler

(pause)

wait for it.....
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 03:56 am
@Endymion,
Wait for what? Everybody knows that don't they?
Endymion
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 06:40 am
@spendius,



hmmm ....Seems so

parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 06:59 am
@Endymion,
Sorry, we Americans are a little preoccupied with fear and sex.

That GOP puts a hot hockey mom on the ticket while telling us that terrorists are going to get us at some point.

I guess they are hoping that fear AND sex sell better.
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 10:22 am
@parados,
Quote:
Sorry, we Americans are a little preoccupied with fear and sex.


and lipstick... Wink

Quote:
That GOP puts a hot hockey mom on the ticket


ah... now this is the bit i don't get. That woman looks like a psycho dinner-lady who once had me stand on my chair in the dinner hall at school for catapulting peas. "Bitter and twisted" was her name.

Quote:
while telling us that terrorists are going to get us at some point.


wow - they really milked that one, eh? Wink

Quote:
I guess they are hoping that fear AND sex sell better.


Isn't that what a lipstick salesman is banking on?

0 Replies
 
 

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