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Is Bush now a Defeatist?

 
 
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 01:00 pm
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/08/defeatism-and-attacks-on-commander-in_14.html

From Michelle Maulkin:

Quote:
Israel and the West surrender to Hizballah.

Terrorists and the U.N. win.

Here are the depressing details:


The Conservative pundits are out in force, sadly attempting to distance themselves from an administration whose arse they were once kissing endlessly throughout their fascist rise to power. But now that Bush is utter poison to Republicans who wish to win in November, the subtle (and not so subtle) attempts to pretend that they never even heard of Bush are beyond ridiculous.

Just about every wingut pundit has called the recent cease fire agreement a "defeat" for America and a "win" for Hezbollah. Isn't this grand? The far right winguttery is weighing in, and they are not too pleased with Bush right now. Actually, they're attacking him at this stage based on the recent cease fire agreement. In essence, they are criticizing him in a time of WAR.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,753 • Replies: 43
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 11:55 pm
It is amazing, isn't it?

The same people who have been telling us that we must not criticize the president because it emboldens the enemy are now ripping that same president apart themselves.

They have also decided that Joe Lieberman, (17% rating from the American Conservative Union) is a Republican. In fact, the White House spokesman refuses to endorse the Republican nominee in Connecticut.

Topsy-turvy, wherever you look.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 12:42 am
President Bush a defeatist? Of course not!. If the Republicans hold on to one House in 2006- The House of Representatives or The Senate, President Bush will not change the course of the USA in Iraq.

He has said that he would leave that to the next President. Hillary can pull the troops out and then when a horrendous explosion( I hope not) takes place in a major US city because Iraqi murderers were not busy fighting US troops in Iraq but rather could take time to inflitrate our country, she will be left holding the bag.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 11:05 am
BernardR wrote:
President Bush a defeatist? Of course not!. If the Republicans hold on to one House in 2006- The House of Representatives or The Senate, President Bush will not change the course of the USA in Iraq.

He has said that he would leave that to the next President. Hillary can pull the troops out and then when a horrendous explosion( I hope not) takes place in a major US city because Iraqi murderers were not busy fighting US troops in Iraq but rather could take time to inflitrate our country, she will be left holding the bag.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or to cry...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 11:11 am
kelticwizard wrote:
The same people who have been telling us that we must not criticize the president because it emboldens the enemy are now ripping that same president apart themselves.


Who said that? ("must not criticize the president because it emboldens the enemy")
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 08:52 pm
Among others, Donald Rumsfeld

Quote:
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, concluding a four-day trip to Iraq and Afghanistan, said today that critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy are encouraging terrorists and complicating the ongoing U.S. war on terrorism.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 09:38 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Among others, Donald Rumsfeld

Quote:
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, concluding a four-day trip to Iraq and Afghanistan, said today that critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy are encouraging terrorists and complicating the ongoing U.S. war on terrorism.


Rumsfeld was referring to criticism of the war policy, which is not the same as criticizing the President.

In any case, are you claiming Rumsfeld is now "ripping" Bush apart?
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 11:22 pm
Ticomaya- Keltic Wizard is the same person who was moaning about our terrible fiscal mess under President Bush. I think he is almost completely ignorant about economic and political matters--

A new report from the CBO reveals that the deficit for 2006 will be ONLY 2 % OF GDP. When this is compared with the EU, the EU has noted that they will have extreme difficulty with meeting a figure of 3%.

It is clear that Keltic Wizard is ignorant of both political and economic reality!!!
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 11:46 pm
Ticomaya wrote:

Rumsfeld was referring to criticism of the war policy, which is not the same as criticizing the President.


Criticizing the President's war policy is not the same as criticizing the President?

Your view is that criticism of the President is fine as long as it deals only with non-policy matters?
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:09 am
Keltic Wizard, as ignorant about Politics as he is about Economics, is not aware that War Policy is made by many people NOT EXCLUDING THE PENTAGON WHICH IS THE ORGANIZATION IN WHICH THE EXPERTS IN WAR RESIDE. Rumsfeld's comment, as Keltic Wizard well knows, does not equate to "ripping the President Apart".


Poor Keltic Wizard- First the Economy comes back marvelously and then Lieberman appears ready to clobber Lamont!!

Keltic Wizard can't seem to get anything right!!
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:44 am
I see. So in the Land Of The Free, we are free to criticize our government unless the government has "experts", in which case criticism is not to be tolerated.

Anybody care to show me the "experts exemption" in the First Amendment? I missed that somehow.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:48 am
Of course, anyone is free to criticize..Even George McGovern...But it doesn't mean that many people will listen to them. Even George McGovern realizes now that he was talking from Cloud Coo-Coo land!!!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 10:53 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:

Rumsfeld was referring to criticism of the war policy, which is not the same as criticizing the President.


Criticizing the President's war policy is not the same as criticizing the President?

Your view is that criticism of the President is fine as long as it deals only with non-policy matters?


What I'm saying is I completely disagree with the notion that being critical of the President "emboldens the enemy." However, I agree with the notion that being critical of the war in Iraq emboldens the enemy.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 10:55 am
The two are completely conflated, Tico. You cannot criticize one without the other; and that's Bush's doing, as you well know. Years of matching yourself up with the war you started for political gain leads to this effect.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 11:32 am
Ticomaya wrote:
However, I agree with the notion that being critical of the war in Iraq emboldens the enemy.

Where's your evidence to support this assertion? How is the "enemy" (whoever that is) emboldened by domestic opposition to the war? Where's your evidence for a cause-and-effect relationship here?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 11:59 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The two are completely conflated, Tico. You cannot criticize one without the other; and that's Bush's doing, as you well know. Years of matching yourself up with the war you started for political gain leads to this effect.

Cycloptichorn


Of course you can criticize the President without criticizing the war effort .... as you well know.

I'm critical of Bush's immigration policy ... I'm critical of his spending policies ... plenty of people are critical of Bush for purely domestic matters.

None of those criticisms emboldens the enemy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:08 pm
That is just so much claptrap. Who is "the enemy?" What is meant by embolden? How is one to reliably recognize either the effect or the object? The claim is sufficiently vague as to not admit of proof or disproof--a perfect sort of thing for a politician, though, of course.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:20 pm
Or a lawyer.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:26 pm
Re: Is Bush now a Defeatist?
Dookiestix wrote:
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/08/defeatism-and-attacks-on-commander-in_14.html

From Michelle Maulkin:

Quote:
Israel and the West surrender to Hizballah.

Terrorists and the U.N. win.

Here are the depressing details:


The Conservative pundits are out in force, sadly attempting to distance themselves from an administration whose arse they were once kissing endlessly throughout their fascist rise to power. But now that Bush is utter poison to Republicans who wish to win in November, the subtle (and not so subtle) attempts to pretend that they never even heard of Bush are beyond ridiculous.

Just about every wingut pundit has called the recent cease fire agreement a "defeat" for America and a "win" for Hezbollah. Isn't this grand? The far right winguttery is weighing in, and they are not too pleased with Bush right now. Actually, they're attacking him at this stage based on the recent cease fire agreement. In essence, they are criticizing him in a time of WAR.

They're not trying to undermine the war itself while we're at war, are they? They're not saying we're in the wrong and should discontinue a war of ours in progress, are they?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:44 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
However, I agree with the notion that being critical of the war in Iraq emboldens the enemy.

Where's your evidence to support this assertion? How is the "enemy" (whoever that is) emboldened by domestic opposition to the war? Where's your evidence for a cause-and-effect relationship here?


I have not deposed any terrorists, so if that's the kind of evidence you seek, I have none. As I said, I agree with the notion ... you are free to disagree if you choose.

But it is, after all, simple logic. The criticism of the war I'm referring to primarily, are the exclamations that we "cannot win the war," or that we have to "cut and run" and set a date to pull out. It is asinine -- and illogical -- to believe the terrorists see Americans turned against each other on this issue, and are not emboldened. The effect of that is to increase their morale ... after all, all they have to do is hold out and win a war of attrition. Conversely, if America was united in the war effort, they would not be so emboldened. Tell me what's wrong with my logic.
0 Replies
 
 

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