"The American people were manipulated..."

Lliberty -- True Majority is doing a yeoman's job and is highly recommended. If you're anything like an "activist" (which I sort of am) you get on their list and that of MoveOn (which I'm more tied into -- they work together), and you get daily emails in which all or most of the work is done for you -- you sign in, your message goes automatically to the Rep or Sen. Or FCC. These organizations have been a really bright spot in a gloomy political landscape. Howard Dean is using the internet, too, very effectively.

BTW, Common Cause, nationally and locally, organized anti-FCC meetings in regional offices of Senators and Reps. That, too, has been very effective. I missed the local meeting last week but understand they've been impressive and effective.

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Tartarin wrote:

Thank god you put quotes around that word patriotism, Frank, or I'da had yer guts fer garters!

I'm very careful about my use of that word. Most people who use it wouldn't recognize it if they fell over it. It sure as hell isn't all that flag-waving; my country right or wrong bullshit.

But I knew I was dealing with you -- and I thought quotation marks were a must.

"Guts fer garters!" Whoa! That is strong. I may use that.

I will use it.

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I think that's actually a British modismo -- can't remember. Old fashioned. And you are right about patriotism. The word ought to be given a forced vacation until this country recovers from its Nazi phase...

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Tartar, I don't think "Nazi Phase" quite describes this administration to a 't.' I'm sure that amongst the linguists in our midst, somebody can come up with something that 'rings' a bell. c.i.

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Never Wonderbread. More on the lines of one of those fancy sounding fake breads, packaged and priced expensively.

CI, some of our best and most responsible presidents have taken the position that the buck stops where they are. Although most admins have somewhat of a teflon coating (necessary to survive), this one is beginning to stand out as never taking responsibility for anything. They'll take credit, but that's it. And it's becoming obvious that we don't really have a president (even though he thinks he is). What we have is a committee of aging power-lust people.

I noticed tonight, at the celebration in Russia, that Bush stepped forward at some point as though he expected to be announced as king of the hill. But he was just another head of state. And there's something funny about this whole Poland deal. While Bush is making speeches, and congratulating Poland, and they're all talking about how pre-America Poland is, Poland wants US help in getting into the EU, so apparently the workings of the old Europe are important.

Frank - another thing. We're not seeing nearly as many poll reports as we did, from which I can only infer that Rove doesn't want them seen.

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Thanks for the links, Tartarin. I've been an "armchair activist" for quite some time...but the weirder things have become, I've realized that I can't just sit back and wish things were different. A lot of people I know are beginning to feel the same way and want to take action in whatever way they can...hopefully, the feeling will spread. Organizations like these make it easier for anyone to voice an opinion, regardless of their time schedule or whatever is keeping them from being politically active.

c.i., I'm not a linguist, but the only alternative to "nazi" that I can come up with as a description of our current administration is "absolutist." We may not be at the level of a nazi state right now, but our "leaders'" attitudes and actions have demonstrated that they are not too far above that. They clearly (and openly) wish to have an American World -- they want to force democracy (is that even possible?) on the rest of the world not with example but with military and/or economic force. And that demotes our country from democracy/republic to something pretty close to nazism.

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The capture of Eric Rudolph is stirring up a few conspiracy theories this morning.

What do you think about the concept of transfer--that the rage of the radical right has been fortuitously shifted to a foreign target (al-Qaeda, Saddam, perhaps Iran next) from a domestic one ('the gov'ment', for brevity's sake)?

Of all of the homegrown terrorists who have taken action during the past several years, the only one who IMHO can be safely described as 'left-wing' would be Ted Kaczynski.

I can't accept, for example, that the good folks gathered at Ruby Ridge or at David Koresh's little slice of heaven in Waco, or Timothy McVeigh or the anthrax mailer, and of course, Eric the Rad, ever considered voting for Ross Perot or the Green Party as a less threatening option in demonstrating their opposition to the party in power.

As for the neoconservatives, I don't think this was a stated aim of the PNAC or even a conscious decision on anyone's part but it certainly seems to have worked out well for them.

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Liberty -- Can't tell how deep you've gotten into the new political movement, but in case you haven't seen it, let me recommend a New York Times Magazine story a couple of months back on Eli Pariser who set up MoveOn. He's just a kid, operating out of his bedroom on a laptop, and he's developed a big following. I'll see if I can find a link for you...

It sure hasn't shifted in this territory, PDiddie (and you know my territory!), but is increasingly anti-government, is moderating its attitude towards the UN, and is becoming much more sophisticated and informed. I admit to be fascinated and often admiring. Independence (vs. group think) is always attractive to me!

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Here's the Pariser link for Liberty:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20814F734580C7A8CDDAA0894DB404482

And a little Sunday morning treat for everyone:
The Republican National Committee announced today that the Republican Party is changing its emblem from an elephant to a condom. Governor Marc Racicot, RNC National Chairman, explained that the condom more clearly reflects the party's stance today, because a condom accepts inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually getting screwed.

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The conservatives (and you are free to read that, the Republicans) have always needed a boogeyman to fight; their domestic and social agendas will never carry the day for them.

So now that dreaded communism is bearly breathing -- terrorism has to serve that function.

Give 'em an excuse and they will bomb the world.

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PDiddie wrote:

The capture of Eric Rudolph is stirring up a few conspiracy theories this morning.

What do you think about the concept of transfer--that the rage of the radical right has been fortuitously shifted to a foreign target (al-Qaeda, Saddam, perhaps Iran next) from a domestic one ('the gov'ment', for brevity's sake)?

What I find particularly interesting about quotes from locals in the area where Rudolph was caught was the anti-government sentiment expressed by the locals themselves and the freepers who are covering them. How do you square the pro-government support for war in Iraq with the mistrust for the government evidenced by the support Rudolph has received?

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MsSpent, That's a new twist to an old mystery. I wouldn't even try to read into the American mind; it's too confused and complicated! c.i.

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Tartarin, I'm really just learning about a lot of that stuff. Some friends of mine have been extremely active in our hometown peace movement and have turned me on to a few groups (including the Dean 2004 internet group). I couldn't read all of that article that you linked me but looked up others on Eli Pariser -- very impressive. Looks like he will be a force to contend with, for sure. I liked the MoveOn site, too -- this method of grouping online is great -- I wasn't able to make it to a lot of the street protests (a problem with a lot of people who otherwise shared peaceful sentiments, I think) but with the online stuff there is really no excuse to sit back and make excuses. You seem to be pretty educated in this movement -- feel free to pass along anything you feel is relevant! Smile

PDiddie, I'm in an area where there hasn't really been a shift among the righties from domestic to foreign issues -- it's been more of an addition to their previous domestic hatred. I think that maybe the terrorist thing distracted them a bit from whatever they thought was wrong with the US before 9/11, but then they've also used that against fellow Americans and have helped to create a big rift within our own citizenry (and I know that a lot of liberals have acted badly in this regard as well, but I think it's more venomous from the right).

MsSpentYouth wrote: "How do you square the pro-government support for war in Iraq with the mistrust for the government evidenced by the support Rudolph has received?"

Maybe it's like Frank said -- the Repugs always have to have a boogyman. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to involve something to fight about. ?

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Liberty - if you sign on with moveon, you will receive their newsletter, and they will also occasionally give adresses to write to. Another site I like is the Governors Association, because that is a monthly meeting report, and it has a lot of information on what's happening in various states. And since mayors and governors quite often wield a lot of local political power, contacting them is sometimes useful. You might want to look in on a site savagenation.com, run by a person who calls himself Michael Savage (which is not his real name). It gives an excellent look at what the unbridled right rants about. He's also on MSNBC (which Tartarin doesn't get - don't know what you're missing!). I don't tune in, but caught him the other day. He said that tv was all biased, and went on to rant and rave about the Nielsen ratings. Said they were a bunch of baloney, because they showed few were watching his show, and that's a lie. Then asked his audience to call in, to show those people. I sometimes wonder if these people know what they're saying.

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What it all boils down to is this. The American citizens were manipulated. After 9/11 we were and are pissed off. GWB & Co haven't been able to "deliver" Osama Bin Loser on a platter.

Big boys with big toys and no one wants to come out and play! I know... let's finish what Daddy couldn't! Tag Iraq... you're it!

To date... dead Americans/Coalition forces. No Osama Bin Laden ties. Dead Iraqis soldiers. No WMD. Dead innocent civilians and brave journalists. No Osama Bin Loser. No WMD. Today is June 2, 2003.

I voted for Dumb in 2000, but Dumber got in because of his Florida ties.

Oops Iraq... our President forked up. Do you want you country back?

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Whew -- lots of good posts! If you had to choose one -- ONE -- issue to fight for, which would it be? I tend to change my mind each time I ask myself that question, but I think the one which gets my attention right now (along with lots of other people) is FULL INFORMATION FROM THE GOVERNMENT. No longer accept the excuse, yes, but, for security reasons... Mamaj -- your suggestion of the Governors' Assoc website is really wonderful.

There was an interesting piece on NPR this morning about police surveillance in Denver which I only heard twixt shower and hair dryer. Anyone catch that?

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Ordinarily when I read a Safire editorial of the kind I see in today's NYTimes, my blood pressure goes up a few notches and I wonder how an intelligent man can be so damn stoopid. Today's editorial moves towards being laughable. He still irritates, but his language is so blatantly overblown and overwrought that it makes this piece of knee-jerk editorializing quite enjoyable to read (my emphases):

Quote:

Turn now to the charge heard ever more stridently that U.S. and British leaders, in their eagerness to overthrow Saddam and to turn the tide of terror in the Middle East, "hyped" the intelligence that Iraq possessed germ and poison-gas weapons.

"Hype" means "exaggerate." As used by those who were prepared to let Saddam remain in power, it is prelude to a harsh accusation: "You lied to us. You pretended to have evidence that you never had; you twisted dubious intelligence to suit your imperialistic ends, so we were morally right and you were morally wrong."

Never mind the mass graves now being unearthed of an estimated 300,000 victims, which together with the million deaths in his wars make Saddam the biggest mass murderer of Muslims in all history. Never mind his undisputed financing of suicide bombers and harboring of terrorists, from Al Qaeda's Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi to the veteran killer Abu Nidal (the only "suicide" with three bullets in his head, dispatched in Baghdad probably because he knew too much.)

And never mind our discovery of two mobile laboratories designed to produce biological and chemical agents capable of causing mass hysteria and death in any city in the world. Future discoveries will be dismissed as "dual use" or planted by us.

No; the opponents of this genocidal maniac's removal now accuse President Bush and Prime Minister Blair of a colossal hoax. Because Saddam didn't use germs or gas on our troops, they say, that proves Iraq never had them. If we cannot find them right away, they don't exist. They believe Saddam sacrificed tens of billions in oil revenues for no reason at all.

A strong majority of Americans believe he did have a dangerous program running, as he did before. Long before the C.I.A. dispatched agents to northern Iraq, Kurdish sources were quoted in this space about terrorist operations of Ansar al-Islam, whose 600 members included about 150 "Afghan Arabs" trained by Al Qaeda; after our belated bombing, some escaped to Iran.

You can watch (and enjoy!) Safire straining to "Fox up" his prose to make a point -- and remember that he needs to do this because his point is pretty weak when measured against the admissions coming from intelligence agents themselves. They will likely lose their jobs, won't they? Safire has nothing to worry about. Armchair blowhard!

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I have the same reaction when I read Safire. I refuse to read him when he writes about Israel anymore, because he doesn't even pretend that he's not Sharon's mouthpiece ("My good friend Ariel Sharon took the time to call me yesterday, and this is what he had to say...")

Today's screed seems to boil down to: "We had to take out this blood-thirsty tyrant. Questions about WMDs are distractions created by Democrats."

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For punishment, I'd like to make Safire sit through a 6 hour IMax miniseries about Genghis Khan (with no cellphone)! But D'art, I'd like to pay more public attention to language, wouldn't you? It's the medium, after all, of manipulation. We need to point and shout more...

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Tartarin wrote:

If you had to choose one -- ONE -- issue to fight for, which would it be?

That's a tough one. I increasingly get more angry about corporate conglomeration, and so that might be my choice (too late for the FCC problem).

Mamajuana -- thanks for the info. I checked out the Michael Savage site Twisted Evil

That kind of stuff scares the hell out of me. It amazes me how people like that freely interchange the definition of freedom with communism and keep a straight face about it.

Okay, so maybe I want to change my one cause worth fighting for to better funding for public education -- especially in history departments. Smile

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