ARE THERE DOUBTS ABOUT THE "HOLOCAUST"...

"THE GOOD OLD DAYS" - The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders: Klee, E., Dressen, W., and Riess, V. (Eds)
S. Fischer Verlag GMBH, Fankfurt am Main, Germany (1988)
Eng. Translation: Burnstone, D.
Konecky & Konecky, Old Saybrook, Ct (1991)
ISBN: 1568521332

From Sir H. T. Roper's Foreword:

Quote:

This is a horrible book to read, and yet one that should be read - not in order to revive old enmities (after all, it has been compiled by Germans and published in Germany), but in order that we do not forget the most somber lesson of the Second World War; the fragility of civilization, the ease and speed with which, in certain circumstances, barbarism can break through that thin crust and even, if backed by power and sanctified by doctrine, be accepted as the norm.

The book's title derives from the cover of a private scrapbook kept by SS-Untersturmführer Kurt Franz (Jan 17, 1914 - July 4, 1998), a cook by trade, heinous murderer by military vocation, who's reprehensible military carreer included a stint as Vice Commandant of the Treblinka extermination camp. Drawn from interviews, personal diaries and letters, published and unpublished memoirs, court transcripts, and official documents, this is one of, if not absolutely, the most chilling works of non-fiction ever produced. There is no editorial commentary, no opinionating, no explanatory narrative, just the actual words of those, perpetrators, victims, and witnesses, who "were there", along with diagrams, illustrations and photos which further drive home the all but unimaginable horror so clearly delivered by the text. Some books are page-turners, compelling the reader to "find out what happens next". This one, despite there being no question of what happened, is no less a page-turner, while at the same time being a heart-wrenching stomach-turner as well. Strong stuff.

dalahow2 wrote:

If Holocaust ever happened.........and I am sad about it(if at all it happened).........that is..Then you should all be be saddened by the events happening in the world today...Unneccesary killing of people..destruction of properties..No wonder some people are arming themselves...

Who in this world wants to loose his kid...mother or families...?

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it. Go to Ebay and look at the WWII material. You can buy hundreds of pictures of the holocaust. I personally knew soldiers coming home from the war who saw it, and it made them sick.

Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

Lekatt wrote:

dalahow2 wrote:

If Holocaust ever happened.........and I am sad about it(if at all it happened).........that is..Then you should all be be saddened by the events happening in the world today...Unneccesary killing of people..destruction of properties..No wonder some people are arming themselves...

Who in this world wants to loose his kid...mother or families...?

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it. Go to Ebay and look at the WWII material. You can buy hundreds of pictures of the holocaust. I personally knew soldiers coming home from the war who saw it, and it made them sick.

Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

Can you please point us to the site that has these documents. We didn't know that such documents existed.

Lekatt wrote:

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it.
Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

Can you please point us to the site that has these documents. We didn't know that such documents existed.

Mindonfire wrote:

Lekatt wrote:

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it.
Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

Can you please point us to the site that has these documents. We didn't know that such documents existed.

HERE, should anyone care to make the effort, may be accessed several tens of thousands of relevant pages ... no fee or registration required.

. . . Where are the documents which explicitly show that Hitler ordered the holocaust? That is what we are searching for.

Mindonfire wrote:

. . . Where are the documents which explicitly show that Hitler ordered the holocaust? That is what we are searching for.

Now I am beginning to see your agenda, Mindy. I had hoped for better.

Via that portal is available overwhelming, incontravertable documentary evidence of the Holocaust, among which are reams of documentation disclosing, confirming, and verifying Hitler's direct, central, foundational, consciously and knowingly directorial role in its conception, inception, and execution ... as was said - for those who care to take the effort.

Now, if you're being so silly as to say you'd like to see an order or letter or something of the like over Hitler's signature that says "Now Kill the Jews", then you obviously would prefer to play games than to deal with history. While I have nothing against silly games - enjoy 'em sometimes, even - the notion of any attempt to incorporate The Holocaust into a silly game is only slightly less disgustingly reprehensible than was The Holocaust itself. Any as would undertake such are a disgrace and embarrassment to humankind.

timberlandko wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

Lekatt wrote:

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it.
Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

Can you please point us to the site that has these documents. We didn't know that such documents existed.

HERE, should anyone care to make the effort, may be accessed several tens of thousands of relevant pages ... no fee or registration required.

Where are the documents which explicitly show that Hitler ordered the holocaust? That is what we are searching for.

and I think you should advise all people that killing lebanese and palestinians is not another "Holocaust"....This is just "War on Terror" as some fellas would like us to claim...

Killing...mutilating and bombing people in Iraq....afghanistan...In palestine is just another "war on Terror"...is not equivalent of the Holocaust, you mean????

najmelliw

In a culture where religious mythology takes precedence over fact then the intellectual mechanisms for dealing with historical manipulation have been blunted. We need only to look at Christian fundamentalism to see how rationality with respect to the Earth's origins can completely break down. Rational debate is foreign territory to those who hold doctrine to be paramount. The problem is that the futility of their simplistic arguments leads to frustration and hostility. In this respect, Zionists who make religious claims to land rights as as bad as their Islamic counterparts.
Most moderate Israelis do not make such claims and yearn to live in peace with their Arab neighbours. The land-rights issue can only be solved by negotiation and mutual concession, not by dogma cynically fuelled by outside agents such as Iran.

Mindonfire wrote:

. . . Where are the documents which explicitly show that Hitler ordered the holocaust? That is what we are searching for.

Now I am beginning to see your agenda, Mindy. I had hoped for better.

You are game playing, mindy, and ineptly at that. You attempt to divorce Hitler the Man from the personality cult government formed, headed, and in minute detail directed by Hitler - can't be done, any more than you can take Allah separately from Islam, Christ from Christianity, Yaweh from Judaism or sugar and flour from cake.

The hypocracy is yours, for attempting so base and transparent a ploy in effort to forward your agenda, and in your straw man allusion to what you falsely characterize unheeded contemporary ills throughout the world. The War on Terrorism is in one way like any other war; it is fought campaign by campaign, battle by battle, engagement by engagement. Characteristic of, component to, every one of your examples, is armed, militant Religious Fundamentalism (chiefly, but not exclusively, of the Islamic flavor); that is the enemy confronting civilization, and The War on Terrorism will be fought untill that enemy no longer has the will, the means, or the ability to wage war against Civilization.

Now, don't get me wrong here - I'm not broad-brushing guilt for all the strife in the world on religion in general nor on Islam in particular, but I will observe there is risen from Islam those who propose and with violence seek to effect a personality cult form of government - based not on a specific individual person, but rather on a twisted, despotic vision of a mythic personality; the Allah of Jihad and Shari'a.

If you were to take your vile agenda and its attendent hate, ignorance and prejudice elsewhere, I doubt many here would count its absence a loss.

timberlandko wrote:

Via that portal is available overwhelming, incontravertable documentary evidence of the Holocaust, among which are reams of documentation disclosing, confirming, and verifying Hitler's direct, central, foundational, consciously and knowingly directorial role in its conception, inception, and execution ... as was said - for those who care to take the effort.

Now, if you're being so silly as to say you'd like to see an order or letter or something of the like over Hitler's signature that says "Now Kill the Jews", then you obviously would prefer to play games than to deal with history. While I have nothing against silly games - enjoy 'em sometimes, even - the notion of any attempt to incorporate The Holocaust into a silly game is only slightly less disgustingly reprehensible than was The Holocaust itself. Any as would undertake such are a disgrace and embarrassment to humankind.

No one is playing games. We just have a problem with the hypocrisy of your world. Hitler is held directly responsible for the Holocaust even though there is no direct documentation which states that he ordered it. While others are not held up to the same standards. Just as long as you all deem it necessary it is accepted. The only reason you all choose to vilify him now is because he failed. Spare us with your holocaust tales. Where were you all for Ruwanda, Sudan, Chechnyia etc... There is holocaust going on all around your world that you all don't care about. But the one that is done and finished is the one that you all want to continue to harp about. Spare us you self-serving hypocrites.

Mindonfire,

You disappoint us. As the foremost proponent of word games in this forum I think you might at least have responded to Timber with a mind-numbing display of words ending in "ation".

Nobody here is denying that atrocities have occurred elsewhere in the world. Two "wrongs" never make a "right". However the "wrong" of "the [/i]Holocaust" denial refers to a specific historical incident involving many groups of people whom the Nazis tried to systematically exterminate with ruthless efficiency. Two solid hours of concentration camp footage was shown at the Nuremberg trials during which many of the Press had to leave the room. Goering's signature on "the Final Solution Order" sealed the fate of the Nazi defendants who shielded their eyes during the film. One person missing from the dock was perhaps the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who was the Palestinian leader who collaborated with Hitler at the time and allegedly intervened to prevent the rescue of 5000 Jewish children by the Red Cross.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni

Dalahow2 needs to study the facts....but doctrine is a most effective blindfold for him, a truth well exploited by religious autocrats.