ARE THERE DOUBTS ABOUT THE "HOLOCAUST"...

It all depends on one's definition of "realistic," naj. I heard someone say on the radio recently that it is unrealistic to ever speak of "peace" in the Near East. "Truce", "cease-fire" -- those might be realistic terms, he said, but not "peace." And, unless I misheard, this person was an Israeli.

0 Replies

Worth noting is that when he was there, Pontius Pilate effectively was the commander of the Roman peacekeeping force in the region.

0 Replies

yeah, and he -- or, rather, his successor -- did one hell of a job at Massada, Timber.

0 Replies

The neighborhood was lots quieter for a very, very long time after that ... credit where its due Mr. Green

0 Replies

(Just in passing.)

Real Life wants to connect atheism to communism so me and other non-believers in the gooey execution or the virgin birth or the guiding angels of anti-evolution arrows (Holy Cow!) can be lumped into taking responsibility for Stalin's pogroms (as if all of non-deists were just like Uncle Joe), but, of course, one can be a communist without being an atheist, ask around about Sukarno of Indonesia He was a Muslim) or visit any Cisterian or Dominican Monastery (Yeah, I know, they aren't Marxists, but they are communists in the very nicest sense.)

And one can be a non-believer without being a communist or a socialist or attached to any particular political bent, (Atheists are like cats, they all look somewhat alike, but they all seem to have a mind of their own. Pigeonholing them is about as easy as herding a hundred calicos across the Great Lawn of Central Park)

but Real Life needs a yes or no answer to the question.

Here it is:

On behalf of the staff and management of all the atheists ever, I hereby take on to myself responsibility for all the sins they may have committed and further, I take upon myself all the sins of the world of everyone everywhere for all time.

Feel better? I do.

Now I know someone did this before, but looking around and seeing what I see, I don't think it took.

Joe(That is all I have to say about that)Nation

0 Replies

Thanks, Joe. For the first time ever, I actually feel clean.

0 Replies

succumb

Merry Andrew wrote:

OK, but regardless of the Holocaust, the present situation has to be judged on its own terms. Israel has been a universally recognized nation, a UN member, since 1948. I suppose that, for the sake of argument, it might be possible to question the legitimacy of that government and that state. But to carry that argument to its logical conclusion, it would be morally legitimate and acceptable for all Mexican-Americans to begin slaughtering all non-Mexicans in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and Colorado. And, if this were to occur, then the world at large should be sympathetic to the Mexican-Americans, not the rest of the population of those states. We should all be condemning the non-Mexicans for even living in those states. Is this a realistic view of the world and the way it should function?

It's Ironic never to recognize Israel and NEVER recognize or give legitimate Government with all structures to the Palestinians...

How does someone comes to your home...forces you to succumb?

0 Replies

Chavez ways
"Israel has gone mad,"It's attacking, doing the same thing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people that they have criticized - and with reason - the Holocaust. But this is a new Holocaust." " he said in a weekly broadcast on Sunday.

0 Replies

Which holocaust? Armenian Jewish Irish Aborigenes N American Indians Kulaks Uzbeks Cambodian Chinese Russian

I recently found out that the Brits were responsible for genocide against the Irish by deliberately introducing potato blight. Far more efficient than shoving 6000 people at a time into a gas chamber dont you think?

0 Replies

Steve 41oo wrote:

Which holocaust? Armenian Jewish Irish Aborigenes N American Indians Kulaks Uzbeks Cambodian Chinese Russian

I recently found out that the Brits were responsible for genocide against the Irish by deliberately introducing potato blight. Far more efficient than shoving 6000 people at a time into a gas chamber dont you think?

I've always been a great admirer of British efficiency, Steve.

But you must admit that for sheer devious cleverness it's hard to beat the American method of handing out warm blankets to N. American aborigines, blankets deliberately infected with smallpox bacillii.

0 Replies

Merry Andrew wrote:

I've always been a great admirer of British efficiency, Steve.

But you must admit that for sheer devious cleverness it's hard to beat the American method of handing out warm blankets to N. American aborigines, blankets deliberately infected with smallpox bacillii.

I'm quite shocked to read this...is this true? When where and why?

0 Replies

Smallpox is caused by a virus; so, if your source specifies bacilli, there is a fatal flaw.

0 Replies

Steve 41oo wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

I've always been a great admirer of British efficiency, Steve.

But you must admit that for sheer devious cleverness it's hard to beat the American method of handing out warm blankets to N. American aborigines, blankets deliberately infected with smallpox bacillii.
I'm quite shocked to read this...is this true? When where and why?

It is true that it is and long has been broadly assumed to be true, however, it is not true. The infection mechanism of smallpox is human-to-human contact; the smallpox virus does not survive long outside its only host, the human, and the time required to collect, transport, warehouse, and redistribute blankets or other materiel - particularly given the contemporarily available technonolgy - is more than sufficient to render contagion at best exceedingly improbable.

In the latter 18th Century, during the French and Indian Wars, a British general named Amherst proposed something of the sort, but no evidence of any such scheme ever having been carried out is known to exist. There is much anecdote, and plenty of allusion and assertion, but apart from the fact it would not have worked, no credible record of its actual occurrence is to be had.

0 Replies

real life wrote:

Do you or do you not, as a fellow atheist, accept responsibility for all the murders and atrocities committed to advance the cause of atheistic regimes in the Soviet Union, Communist China, etc ?

This is especially weak sauce even for you, and that is really saying something.

1: atheism has nothing whatsoever to do with communism.
2: Believers are united by beliefs, dogma, and a common theology that creates a common unified worldview. Atheists have no such body of dogma on which to consolidate their beliefs. No two atheists believe the same thing, there is no 'church of atheism', nor any accepted tenets among atheists save a lack of belief in theos of any sort.
In short, a church is an organization, with adherents, while atheism is not.

0 Replies

One of the points Dennet makes in his interview is how the 'faith card' is often used to justify the most abhorrent perversions. I'm waiting to see if he qualifies his observation with a broad enough definition of faith to include political ideologies.

0 Replies

neologist wrote:

One of the points Dennet makes in his interview is how the 'faith card' is often used to justify the most abhorrent perversions. I'm waiting to see if he qualifies his observation with a broad enough definition of faith to include political ideologies.

I don't know about Dennett, but I need only wander so far as the politics forum on this very board to be convinced this is the case. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on faith, but I think you already know that.

0 Replies

Re: so

dalahow2 wrote:

If Holocaust ever happened.........and I am sad about it(if at all it happened).........that is..Then you should all be be saddened by the events happening in the world today...Unneccesary killing of people..destruction of properties..No wonder some people are arming themselves...

Who in this world wants to loose his kid...mother or families...?

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it. Go to Ebay and look at the WWII material. You can buy hundreds of pictures of the holocaust. I personally knew soldiers coming home from the war who saw it, and it made them sick.

Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

0 Replies

Re: so

Lekatt wrote:

dalahow2 wrote:
If Holocaust ever happened.........and I am sad about it(if at all it happened).........that is..Then you should all be be saddened by the events happening in the world today...Unneccesary killing of people..destruction of properties..No wonder some people are arming themselves...

Who in this world wants to loose his kid...mother or families...?

There is no doubt the holocaust happened. There are documents showing Hitler ordered it. Go to Ebay and look at the WWII material. You can buy hundreds of pictures of the holocaust. I personally knew soldiers coming home from the war who saw it, and it made them sick.

Anyone who doubts the holocaust needs to study history.

Several excellent sources on the Holocaust, to read include the following:

1."Twisted Cross", by Doris Berger

2."War and Genocide", by Doris Berger

3."Ordinary Men: reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland", by C.R. Browning

4."A Holocaust reader" by L.S. Dawidowicz

5."Neighbors" by Jan t. Gross

6."A Holocaust reader: respnses to the Nazi extermination", by Michael Morgan

7."The Holocaust: Problems and Perceptives of Interpretation", by Donald L. Niewyk

8."The Holocaust in American life", by P. Novick

9. "Into that darkness: an examination of conscience", by G. Sereny

10.Night, by E. Wiesel

11. The Sunflower : or the possibilities and limits of forgiveness, by S. Wiesenthal."

12. "Maus" by A. Spiegelman

0 Replies

"THE GOOD OLD DAYS" - The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders: Klee, E., Dressen, W., and Riess, V. (Eds)
S. Fischer Verlag GMBH, Fankfurt am Main, Germany (1988)
Eng. Translation: Burnstone, D.
Konecky & Konecky, Old Saybrook, Ct (1991)
ISBN: 1568521332

From Sir H. T. Roper's Foreword:

Quote:

This is a horrible book to read, and yet one that should be read - not in order to revive old enmities (after all, it has been compiled by Germans and published in Germany), but in order that we do not forget the most somber lesson of the Second World War; the fragility of civilization, the ease and speed with which, in certain circumstances, barbarism can break through that thin crust and even, if backed by power and sanctified by doctrine, be accepted as the norm.

The book's title derives from the cover of a private scrapbook kept by SS-Untersturmführer Kurt Franz (Jan 17, 1914 - July 4, 1998), a cook by trade, heinous murderer by military vocation, who's reprehensible military carreer included a stint as Vice Commandant of the Treblinka extermination camp. Drawn from interviews, personal diaries and letters, published and unpublished memoirs, court transcripts, and official documents, this is one of, if not absolutely, the most chilling works of non-fiction ever produced. There is no editorial commentary, no opinionating, no explanatory narrative, just the actual words of those, perpetrators, victims, and witnesses, who "were there", along with diagrams, illustrations and photos which further drive home the all but unimaginable horror so clearly delivered by the text. Some books are page-turners, compelling the reader to "find out what happens next". This one, despite there being no question of what happened, is no less a page-turner, while at the same time being a heart-wrenching stomach-turner as well. Strong stuff.

0 Replies

Doktor S wrote:

real life wrote:

Do you or do you not, as a fellow atheist, accept responsibility for all the murders and atrocities committed to advance the cause of atheistic regimes in the Soviet Union, Communist China, etc ?

This is especially weak sauce even for you, and that is really saying something.

1: atheism has nothing whatsoever to do with communism.
2: Believers are united by beliefs, dogma, and a common theology that creates a common unified worldview. Atheists have no such body of dogma on which to consolidate their beliefs. No two atheists believe the same thing, there is no 'church of atheism', nor any accepted tenets among atheists save a lack of belief in theos of any sort.
In short, a church is an organization, with adherents, while atheism is not.

This challenge was, as you must know if you read the entire post, in response to the idea that all Christians of all time must accept responsibility for any error, crime or misdeed perpetrated under the guise of being motivated by Christian principle.

I simply asked if he, as an atheist, were willing to submit to the same standard.

However, in response to several surprising misstatements from your response:

Atheism has nothing to do with communism? Where have you been? Nearly all of the major communist movements and governments of the 20th century held atheism as a bedrock principle.

Believers are united by beliefs, dogma and a common theology...... Have you never noticed the incredible variety of belief within the Christian community? Again, where have you been?

Atheists, on the other hand, to qualify for the label only need believe one thing --- that there is no God. It would seem that atheists would be much more easily assumed to have a 'united un-belief'.

But perhaps I expect too much of you.............

0 Replies

ARE THERE DOUBTS ABOUT THE "HOLOCAUST"...

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know