"Speak good to men..." (Q2:83)
To suggest that the Holocaust might not have happened (with respect) is not a good thing to say.
There are many Halocausts taking place all over the world - The AIDS crisis being (in my opinion) the worst and most denied...
Quote:THE HOLY QURAAN CHAPTER 61:89 SAY:
Their(Non-believers)Intention is to extinquish Allah's Light(By blowing it) with their Mouth:But Allah will Complete (The revelations of)HIS Light Even though the Un-believers may detest It.
And how will he complete his light? Killing all opponents of Islam? You know fanatical religions such as Islam are really bad. A meme which only strong disinfectant can eliminate. Fortunately such is at hand for anyone who is intelligent enough to think and apply logic.
Oh, and of course, this never happened either...
The genocide suffered by the Hindu Community at the hands of the
Muslim occupying forces in India for a period of 1100 years is as yet formally undocumented. But its memory survives till today in the hearts of many Hindus, who seek not revenge from the Muslims, but want to ensure that no such horrible event occurs any time in the future anywhere on this globe.
The only similar genocide in the recent past was that of the Jewish people at the hands of the perverted Nazis; and of the Africans during the slave trade perpetrated by the Arab Muslim slave traders and later by the European colonialists as also the almost total wiping out of native populations like the Maoris in Australia and the Red Indians, (Aztecs, Incas, etc.) in North and South America. It has been estimated that in all, millions of African men, women and children died throughout the trade and more than 75% of the native Americans were wiped out.
The holocaust of the Hindus was of similar proportions, the only difference was that it started in the year 715 C.E. with the Arab Muslim invasion of Sindh and continued for 1100 years, i.e. for more than a millennium, till the brutal Muslims were effectively overpowered by the Hindu Marathas in 1720 C.E.
Historians have described the Muslim attack on the Hindus as a conflict of Black with White. Since times immemorial India had been invaded by many people from different parts of our globe (in fact, it was the same for all countries). But what contrasted the pre-Muslim invaders from the Muslims was that after their initial clash with Hindu military power, the pre-Muslim invaders merged into the general mainstream and even the memory of their having come as invaders itself disappeared. We do not consider Emperors like Kanishka (a Ku Shan or Kushana), Milinda (an Indo-Greek), Rudradaman (a Shaka or Scythian from pre-Muslim Iran) to be non-Indians. These invaders have merged into today's general Hindu population.
But the Muslims with their barrack like lifestyle and their contempt for everything non-Islamic, have left a wounded civilization in India. The brutal Muslim tyranny has till today left a split in India's national character, even after the country was vivisected into two parts - to create Pakistan as a state for Indian Muslims. But in spite of the division of this country to create a separate homeland for the Muslims in 1947, many of them preferred to stay back and today account for the recurrent communal riots, the killings of Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir and the renewed demand for special status and for the Islamization of India. This is today's reality which could become tomorrow's calamity - if we are not on our guard and take preventive action
smorgs wrote:"Speak good to men..." (Q2:83)
To suggest that the Holocaust might not have happened (with respect) is not a good thing to say.
There are many Halocausts taking place all over the world - The AIDS crisis being (in my opinion) the worst and most denied...
Some correction...Though
We were talking about ...are there doubts?...Not that there was no "Holocaust"...or "Halocausts" as my freind Smorgs(Thanks..who mentioned a very good Quraan verse) was implying...
Nontheless, Doc was quick to note that, many of these so-called denials are paid propagandas..I wish They will know the "Impact of the halocaust" as I read on wikipedia some few minutes ago..
some fellas were sending me some texts that says...
Please read this crazy stuff
Why should people deny facts anyways
Quote:
Why should people deny facts anyways
Yes...why. Facts such as Mohammeds pedophilia or islamic suicide bombing.
Strange, isn't it.
My general rejection of formal religion, especially the world religions, does not move me to condemn Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism en toto as the sources of human atrocities. While I grant that the fundamentalist versions of Christianity, Hinduism and the Islamists are more conducive to intergroup murderous thoughts and/or actions, I have known philosophically sophisticated and morally enlightened Christians, Jews, Muslims and Hindus whom I consider to be part of the solution to the world's woes (I do not mention Buddhism because I do not consider it's "higher" versions to comprise a religion at all).
Millions of Jews died in the Holocaust.
So did millions of others, many of them Christian.
The Holocaust happened, but it was not exclusively Jews who died.
No one here said it was ONLY Jews that died.
Real Life, I trust that in noting that non-jews also died in the Holocaust, you are not trying to minimize its horror.
real life wrote:Millions of Jews died in the Holocaust.
8-10 million as a matter.
What is undeniably true,
and will be wondered at by humans twenty generations from now,
is that millions of humans have been killed by millions of other humans because they did not believe in the same made-up nonsense
about which god's son did or didn't die
or which god had two heads or six arms
or which god's name was so holy that it couldn't be said out loud
or which god had chosen which extra extra special humans
to be the sole and unerring witnesses of it's glory and love
all while they slaughtered everyone in non-agreement
with sword
or gun
or bomb.
A pox on all your houses of falsity.
I say to all believers, if even one person has died due to the actions of an adherent of your sect you are just as guilty of that murder as the perpetrator.
You all speak the same words in your heart as Mel Gibson, you just change the slur to match your own belief.
So much for the glory.
Joe( Peace will not come from the pages of any scripture)Nation
Makes note of Joe Nation's posts from here on. Very well-said.
Was there a point to this thread to start with? I think I missed it somewhere between the vitriol and the holy oil.
JLNobody wrote:Real Life, I trust that in noting that non-jews also died in the Holocaust, you are not trying to minimize its horror.
Not at all. Quite the opposite.
Six million Jews (or more by some estimates) died in the Holocaust.
Another four to six million persons, or more (many Christian, many not) also died in the Holocaust.
My point is , not to minimize, but to point out that totalitarian Germany was responsible for
a lot more than six million dead. (Then you add soldiers of various countries, and civilian casualties of war...... you're up over 50 million)
The non-Jewish Holocaust deaths are usually the ones minimized or ignored
for a typical example see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_casualties_by_country
Unfortunately, Hitler's rhetoric is mirrored by many today who scapegoat various religious groups for all the world's ills.
Joe Nation wrote:What is undeniably true,
and will be wondered at by humans twenty generations from now,
is that millions of humans have been killed by millions of other humans because they did not believe in the same made-up nonsense
about which god's son did or didn't die
or which god had two heads or six arms
or which god's name was so holy that it couldn't be said out loud
or which god had chosen which extra extra special humans
to be the sole and unerring witnesses of it's glory and love
all while they slaughtered everyone in non-agreement
with sword
or gun
or bomb.
A pox on all your houses of falsity.
I say to all believers, if even one person has died due to the actions of an adherent of your sect you are just as guilty of that murder as the perpetrator.
You all speak the same words in your heart as Mel Gibson, you just change the slur to match your own belief.
So much for the glory.
Joe( Peace will not come from the pages of any scripture)Nation
So, Joe, do you then accept responsibility for all the deaths of atheist regimes such as the Soviet Union, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Communist China, etc , which were carried out to force adherence to the party line i.e. mandated atheism, 'sharing' of all property, etc ?
To be consistent, you must. But of course, you won't.
Even though atheism is the bedrock of communism, you will weasel away from your comrades into the dark, claiming no responsibility.
Martin Luther (yes,
that Martin Luther):
On Jews ...
Some things never change, eh?
So, timber, how is Hitler blaming the Jews for the world's ills any different from you blaming Christians or other religious folks for the world's ills?
I lay the blame on ignorant, superstitious, luddite, biggotted fundie wingnuts, rl, regardless of persuasion - there are plenty of folks of faith - by far the majority - who are not fundie wingnuts. Its not so much religion per se, but rather more the perversion, the all-too-easy perversion - of religious tenets that foments problems. Some folks'll do anything if they can be convinced its their god's will, and some folks are easily convinced. Its all a matter of faith.
Tai Chi wrote:Joe Nation wrote:What is undeniably true,
and will be wondered at by humans twenty generations from now,
is that millions of humans have been killed by millions of other humans because they did not believe in the same made-up nonsense
about which god's son did or didn't die
or which god had two heads or six arms
or which god's name was so holy that it couldn't be said out loud
or which god had chosen which extra extra special humans
to be the sole and unerring witnesses of it's glory and love
all while they slaughtered everyone in non-agreement
with sword
or gun
or bomb.
A pox on all your houses of falsity.
I say to all believers, if even one person has died due to the actions of an adherent of your sect you are just as guilty of that murder as the perpetrator.
You all speak the same words in your heart as Mel Gibson, you just change the slur to match your own belief.
So much for the glory.
Joe( Peace will not come from the pages of any scripture)Nation
Amen to that.
Ditto, and ditto to Timber as well.
