death prior to original sin

I would find that to be a most interesting cup-o-joe.
Count me in.

neologist wrote:

Before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever. That should be real easy to understand.

Well then if as you say "before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever" then prior to sin by default they were de facto immortals. Therefore the tree of life was not needed for immorality.

Chumly wrote:

neologist wrote:

Before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever. That should be real easy to understand.

Well then if as you say "before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever" then prior to sin by default they were de facto immortals. Therefore the tree of life was not needed for immorality.

I think the only explanation for this is that the God has already known that A&E would sinned one day and be exiled from the Garden of Eden. However, he love human beings and want to save them from their sin and death, so that he create the tree of life in advance for those rebels who would like to believe in him, with the privilege of living in heaven forever.

I have to be away for a while, but I did bookmark this spot.

Chumly, let's take just one thing:

Before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever except for one test. They would not have been immortal because there was the very real possibility of not passing the test.

Were they to have passed the test to God's satisfaction, they would have eliminated the one obstacle to immortality. Exactly how and when the tree of life would have been made available to them is not explained.

I really don't see how your contrived erudition can change this simple fact. (According to the Bible, that is.)

Chumly wrote:

Hi heph,

It's irrelative where the concepts came from, the point in fact is whether there is logic and/or congruency, that's the charm of critical thinking. It's something I challenge you to demonstrate thusly:

If there was human death prior to original sin, then how could it be as Neo says the "punishment for their sin was/is death" if death was already a given?

It could be because the "death" that was being talked about was not physical but spiritual. ie... separation from God. They were in the garden, in His presence, they disobeyed and were kicked out of the garden, away from His presence. It's really not that hard of a concept to understand Chumly.

What part of exponential growth is speculation?

I was talking to some one about this an they take it as Adam and Eve were Immortal with no death, They ate from the tree of life as soon as they were given life but even before eating the had no death. They lost there imortality from eating the other fruit.

This would equal out that they didnt instantly die, but still died in the end.

neologist wrote:

The Hebrew words we read as Garden of Eden literally mean 'paradise of pleasure', so Adam and Eve were already in paradise.

That's fine except it begs the question as to what sort of punishment would death be, from eating of the tree, if the net result of death in (Adam and Eve's case) was to go to heaven which, is also regarded as a paradise. It makes no sense; heaven as punishment?

neologist wrote:

Where did the idea of heaven come in? Not from the passages under discussion. The choice before Adam and Eve was between continued life in the paradise of pleasure or death. If they had not sinned, they would still be here and we would not have had war and crime and sickness and death.Whether by now they or any of us would have been considered worthy of tasting the tree of life cannot be determined. Your argument that the tree of life makes no sense is valid only in its application to Chumly.

The idea of heaven came in from your ruminations in justifying the purpose of the tree of life. You suggest the tree represented a "symbolic reward for faithfully avoiding the tree of the knowledge of good and bad". There is a begged question here which would quite naturally include the implications of Adam and Eve's death. One of the implications of Adam and Eve's death is going to heaven and the immorality that implies.

but why would god give a test? You can have free will without a temptation.