death prior to original sin

The mathematics of uncontrolled growth are frightening. A single cell of the bacterium E. coli would, under ideal circumstances, divide every twenty minutes. That is not particularly disturbing until you think about it, but the fact is that bacteria multiply geometrically: one becomes two, two become four, four become eight, and so on. In this way it can be shown that in a single day, one cell of E. coli could produce a super-colony equal in size and weight to the entire planet Earth.

So the idea of death was around before time while actual death happend after origanl sin.

If there was human death prior to original sin, then how could it be as Neo says the "punishment for their sin was/is death" if death was already a given.

If there was not human death prior to original sin then man was immortal prior to original sin and thus the tree of life was not needed for immorality.

I tend to go with what is written, the way it is written, unless or until it is clarified further. That's a reasonable man's edict. I am neither condemning nor condoning Neo but simply using his text for what I understand to be a very poplar belief. Further when you claim "Neo did not specify one or the other" you should understand that Neo and I have chatted a good deal and I have some idea about his position on such things, further he had ample opportunity to clarify should he have wanted to mean death in the interpretive sense. Further I do not in any sense need Neo's quote to make my arguments, it was simply a matter of convenience. The precept averred by Neo is very well popularized.

If you however, wish to state your interpretive (or literalist) arguments as to how you find congruency as per human death / original sin / punishment / innocence / immorality / the tree of life, have at it.

Chumly wrote:

OK, where do it specifically say that if they stayed in the garden of Eden and did not eat of the tree of knowledge that they would with certainty die?

Most importantly however I am going on what Neo has said here and that clearly infers there was no death prior to original sin.

neologist wrote:

We suffer the consequence of Adam and Eve's sin. The punishment for their sin was/is death.

I doesn't say specifically that if they stayed in the garden of Eden and did not eat of the tree of knowledge that they would certainty die, but it does say:

Quote:

21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. 22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

Perhaps it could have been worded better chumly to say The punishment for their sin was/is spiritual death. IE... separation from God, which is exactly what happened when they ate of the tree.

There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality. The separating word is trust.

Cool. So are you going to address my point then?

It doesn't say specifically that if they stayed in the garden of Eden and did not eat of the tree of knowledge that they would certainty die....

The mathematics of uncontrolled growth are frightening. A single cell of the bacterium E. coli would, under ideal circumstances, divide every twenty minutes. That is not particularly disturbing until you think about it, but the fact is that bacteria multiply geometrically: one becomes two, two become four, four become eight, and so on. In this way it can be shown that in a single day, one cell of E. coli could produce a super-colony equal in size and weight to the entire planet Earth.

hephzibah wrote:

Cool. So are you going to address my point then?

OK you say

hephzibah wrote:

It doesn't say specifically that if they stayed in the garden of Eden and did not eat of the tree of knowledge that they would certainty die....

Follow this logic and see where it leads:

If there was human death prior to original sin, then how could it be as Neo says the "punishment for their sin was/is death" if death was already a given? Plus how could man have been threatened by death as punishment if he had not yet eaten from the tree of knowledge and thus could not know of death, as he was innocent?

If there was not human death prior to original sin then man was immortal prior to original sin and thus the tree of life was not needed for immorality.

Therefore it must be that prior to original sin man was immortal!

I then ask, if there was human reproduction pre-"original sin" then the world would very quickly have been wholly overrun run with people. Here's an example of uncontrolled growth

Quote:

The mathematics of uncontrolled growth are frightening. A single cell of the bacterium E. coli would, under ideal circumstances, divide every twenty minutes. That is not particularly disturbing until you think about it, but the fact is that bacteria multiply geometrically: one becomes two, two become four, four become eight, and so on. In this way it can be shown that in a single day, one cell of E. coli could produce a super-colony equal in size and weight to the entire planet Earth.

http://www.ugrad.math.ubc.ca/coursedoc/math100/notes/zoo/andromed.html

21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. 22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

Immortality:
Endless life or existence
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/%20immortality%20

Ever lasting life
By definition: a life that does not end

One and the same to me.