death prior to original sin

Before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever. That should be real easy to understand.

Adam and Eve both knew what death was because Adam had been around long enough to name the animals and observe that animals did, in fact, die.

As for whether they would overfill the earth, I refer you to my response to CI, above.

BTW, it was not the tree of knowledge like the 'tree of education', it was the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

I guess I shouldn't JUST joke around. On a more serious note Chai I do understand how utterly ridiculous all of this would sound to someone who views the bible as nothing more than a story or myth of some sort. But... what if it's not? Have you ever wondered that yourself? I do. A lot. Not because I'm afraid of going to hell, but maybe... just maybe... because I would like to believe there is more to life than just living and dying. That there is a greater love out there than we see when we just look at the cold world that surrounds us. That suffering isn't always in vain. That even in my darkest hour when I feel the most alone I've ever felt there's still a hope of something better to carry me through it. Maybe believing that makes me a fool in some peoples eyes. I can understand why it would. But it makes me happy. So if I have to be called a fool by a few people in this life to believe something that makes me happy... then so be it. *shrugs*

hephzibah wrote:

I guess I shouldn't JUST joke around. On a more serious note Chai I do understand how utterly ridiculous all of this would sound to someone who views the bible as nothing more than a story or myth of some sort. But... what if it's not? Have you ever wondered that yourself? I do. A lot. Not because I'm afraid of going to hell, but maybe... just maybe... because I would like to believe there is more to life than just living and dying. That there is a greater love out there than we see when we just look at the cold world that surrounds us. That suffering isn't always in vain. That even in my darkest hour when I feel the most alone I've ever felt there's still a hope of something better to carry me through it. Maybe believing that makes me a fool in some peoples eyes. I can understand why it would. But it makes me happy. So if I have to be called a fool by a few people in this life to believe something that makes me happy... then so be it. *shrugs*

Understanding the bible or many other religious texts it not to be taken literally does not take away from the message.

There was no A&E specifically, or tree of life, etc.....it is meant to show that at some point in time mankind was endowed with a soul and understood the difference between right and wrong.

Some may disagree with the soul part, I'm fine with that.

I do not believe in original sin, I think it's a concept that was thought up so people who held the "right" belief towed the line.

I believe in being good for goodness sake. witch to me is a form of my worship to my creator.

The more I read and learn about the cosmos, the more I am in awe of my creator. It certainly leaves a tree and a snake in the dust.

you don't have to believe in the litereral interpretation to not live in some meaningless void.

but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Hi heph,

It's irrelative where the concepts came from, the point in fact is whether there is logic and/or congruency, that's the charm of critical thinking. It's something I challenge you to demonstrate thusly:

If there was human death prior to original sin, then how could it be as Neo says the "punishment for their sin was/is death" if death was already a given?

Plus how could man have been threatened by death as punishment if he had not yet eaten from the tree of knowledge and thus could not know of death, as he was innocent?

If there was not human death prior to original sin then man was immortal prior to original sin and thus the tree of life was not needed for immorality.

Therefore it must be that prior to original sin man was immortal!

I then ask, if there was human reproduction pre-"original sin" then the world would very quickly have been wholly overrun run with people. Here's an example of uncontrolled growth

Quote:

The mathematics of uncontrolled growth are frightening. A single cell of the bacterium E. coli would, under ideal circumstances, divide every twenty minutes. That is not particularly disturbing until you think about it, but the fact is that bacteria multiply geometrically: one becomes two, two become four, four become eight, and so on. In this way it can be shown that in a single day, one cell of E. coli could produce a super-colony equal in size and weight to the entire planet Earth.

http://www.ugrad.math.ubc.ca/coursedoc/math100/notes/zoo/andromed.html

Calling something "poppycock" doesn't explain why.

Now... I have a question for you. Do you actually READ what I write or do you just see what is convenient for your own theories and purposes?

What part of exponential growth is speculation?

Before Adam and Eve sinned they had the prospect of living forever except for one test. They would not have been immortal because there was the very real possibility of not passing the test.

Were they to have passed the test to God's satisfaction, they would have eliminated the one obstacle to immortality. Exactly how and when the tree of life would have been made available to them is not explained.

Please state your position:
- human death prior to original sin
- no human death prior to original sin

We'll go from there once you choose!