The plan - Please read

I'd have to talk to my tax guy - about being a wash account, heaven knows - I have enough other side items passing in and out, between buying and selling on ebay to hosting every direction.
Sides- no worry - if you don't want me - it won't hurt my feelings! Aint got any Wink

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Rabbit - Lola - like whips I think!

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Husker,

I have heard good offers too. But most are multi-tired marketing schemes that i avoid. In any case the idea was to avoid using a third party to provide money. I can already earn money off of ad referrals to a few survey sites but the plan was to avoid advertising.

Dlowan,

Aussie dollars be fickle. he he. Kiddin, the amounts are not set in stone. I am only adding it up to see if it's worth it. We are at $23.5 then.

realjohnboy,

I don't really want to do a year thing. Because I'd feel obligated. Your other part about feeling "bought" is also relevant. I'm just collecting data now for strategic purposes.

As to the idea of a third party it would make me less willing to do this. As it stands accepting money is a responsibility I take VERY seriously. And I would feel compromised to be having someone else accept it on my behalf. I think there are ways around paypal. Paypal is just the easiest and safest that I know of. I understand that many are not comfortable with online anything and that may be a factor I have to deal with. Either I'll find a way around it or I'll give up the idea.

Right now I just want to see if I can get to $150. I'm designing the new site layout and look and want to know if i need to reserve a space for banner ads or not. I'm not in a hurry to implement it.

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Husker,

Nothing personal, but like I stated above, I dislike receiving money but am even more wary of others handling it in my name.

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Random Ideas:

1) Replace all ads with your own. Have a fundraising thermometer that shows how close we are to $150 for this month. There are so many active users here that I'm sure you would get what you need just from donations.

2) PayPal pretty much rules the online world for payments. Set it up and I'll use it!

3) The people on A2K are highly intelligent, articulate, well-spoken and conscientious people (did I miss anything? :wink: ) ... or I wouldn't be here. This kind of person tends to have higher than average earning power, and tends to donate to worthy causes. You're in a good market.

4) If I had my druthers (and who wouldn't want that?!) you'd be making some decent profit just for all the hard work and prompt, dedicated attention you've already been putting into A2K. Sure, be modest and shy about it, but we've all been impressed and well appreciate what you do. If you refuse to make a profit, just on principle, at least put the spare change in an emergency fund.

5) DansData.com is one example of a large website run by only one person. He makes $40,000 a year from it, by writing reviews and articles that link to online stores. It's successful enough that when he lost his daytime job, he didn't have to go back. That method wouldn't work here (unless we had a "Product Review" forum with pertinent links). But it's an example of the creativity that can be applied in a small one-person outfit. Many things are possible!

6) The instant there are popup ads here, I am leaving. The instant there are ads that overlay on top of the website functions, obscuring them, I am leaving. The instant the website does scary weird stuff with Javascript, I am leaving.

7) I'm amazed that the industry pays for ads at all, because out of 30,000 ads I viewed over the years I've never responded to one. In fact, Orbitz.com makes my life so miserable, I'd pay money to hurt that company. Ads aren't the solution.

8) Like a pro skateboarder, find a sponsor. One company who's name is always displayed at the top or bottom of pages, and pays the entire bill. No ad server, counting, or billing is needed. Just be careful the contract leaves you in control, when you change sponsors.

9) Or think of it this way: When I carpool with people, the passengers chip in for gas, and the driver pays nothing. I have a hunch that a thermometer (or a gas meter) is all you'll ever need, here. We're a community. Thanks for the lift!

Go Craven!

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Craven, you are impossible! Put me down for $8.33/month, which comes out to $100/year. How I would get it to you w/o using Paypay or sending a monthly check will have to be dealt with later.
-rjb-

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CodeBorg wrote:

1) Replace all ads with your own. Have a fundraising thermometer that shows how close we are to $150 for this month. There are so many active users here that I'm sure you would get what you need just from donations.

I did that and got 4. This is why I'm not certain that this will work and have started this thread to find out if it's even viable.

CodeBorg wrote:

2) PayPal pretty much rules the online world for payments. Set it up and I'll use it!

It's already setup but before I spend time implementing it I'd like to see if it's worth it.

CodeBorg wrote:

4) If I had my druthers (and who wouldn't want that?!) you'd be making some decent profit just for all the hard work and prompt, dedicated attention you've already been putting into A2K. Sure, be modest and shy about it, but we've all been impressed and well appreciate what you do. If you refuse to make a profit, just on principle, at least put the spare change in an emergency fund.

The aversion to profiting is simply that a) it's only worth it if it is enough to live off of and I do not see that as likely. b) I simply don't see profit as possible without resorting to tactics I despise. Many reputable sites are already doing popups etc. c)I'm not modest, I just dislike compliments because I'm arrogant and can't accept them gracefully. I also like doing this and the headaches are just part of teh fun d) I have no principle against profit, but do have a principle against what is close to donations. I will not allow the members to be a source of profit. I also might not accept this plan if it's too close to donations etc.

I know I sound picky and it's not like I'm a man of lofty ethics. I just dislike monetary responsibility.

CodeBorg wrote:

5) DansData.com is one example of a large website run by only one person. He makes $40,000 a year from it, by writing reviews and articles that link to online stores. It's successful enough that when he lost his daytime job, he didn't have to go back. That method wouldn't work here (unless we had a "Product Review" forum with pertinent links). But it's an example of the creativity that can be applied in a small one-person outfit. Many things are possible!

Oh it's possible. I still have plans for other areas of this site and other sites. But the forums are always what will take up 90+% of the cost and forums are terrible to make money off of.

CodeBorg wrote:

6) The instant there are popup ads here, I am leaving. The instant there are ads that overlay on top of the website functions, obscuring them, I am leaving. The instant the website does scary weird stuff with Javascript, I am leaving.

Me too. I hate popups and I hate intersitals. The ad agencies I use already am offering me a lot more for popups than they do for banners but I do not want to stoop there.

CodeBorg wrote:

7) I'm amazed that the industry pays for ads at all, because out of 30,000 ads I viewed over the years I've never responded to one. In fact, Orbitz.com makes my life so miserable, I'd pay money to hurt that company. Ads aren't the solution.

Heck I can teach you how to block orbitz if ya want. Without the use of a program.

But I get what you mean. Until I started studying the ad industry I'd never clicked on a banner.

In the past banner impressions were commonly paid for. Now a shift to only paying for clicks is seen. A great click through ratio is 1%.

CodeBorg wrote:

8) Think of it this way: When I carpool with people, the passengers chip in for gas, and the driver pays nothing. I have a hunch that a thermometer (or a gas meter) is all you'll ever need, here. We're a community. Thanks for the lift!

Your enthusiasm is contagious. The thing is, just as you never click on ads, there are many who never spend a cent online. I was that way till I came stateside. Now I spend money online.

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john,

We are at 31.83.

Like I said this is a n excersise. Nothing here is final. I may not want to be responsible after all.

As to the details one thing people MUST think about is what they want for their subscription. It'll be close enough to an out and out donation as it is but I want to offer something in return.

I have listed my ideas:

1) a huge email account (100 MB) with almost any name you want.
2) low resource hosting (e.g. no database access but if you want your small site hosted here I can do it as long as it doesn't use A2K resources).
3) Custom title (this is almost nothing but it's something).

Any other ideas? i can also offer my skills in webdevelopment if it is feasible.

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I'm still waiting for the webpage that has payment info... <tapping foot>
Shouldn't it be in the header and footer of each page by now?

Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Contact Us :: Help Pay for Gas

:-D

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LOL, I'm not ready yet!!! I dunno if I'll even do it and the little that I have done so far is already something I worry about.

e.g. some members subscribed to an ad-free forum but there have been suspentions in ad-delivery so now I think I should refund them.

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Oops, I very sneakily inserted a new #8 into my previous post.
But wait, there's more!

10) Have a bake sale. Sell only Oreos. I'll buy 10 boxes.

11) Premium services I would pay for:
You know how images that are hosted on geocities canNOT be referenced from A2K? I'd pay $10/month for 100MB of image, mp3, .html, .zip space that can be referred to by any website. Actually, how about 10GB? Pricewatch.com shows 250GB drives are only $258 these days...

12) Hotmail sucks, but Yahoo's okay for email (hard to compete).
A few places already offer free websites with fancy statistics and discussion groups (hard to compete). However...

I like Amazon's "User Lists" but I hesitate to use it because the interface is clunky and my booklist gets stuck on Amazon. If you created a generic, web-wide, product "User Lists" facility, along with a "Guide to Shopping All Over The Internet"... that might be fun to play with. I have about 300 books I'm trying to organize, and the ones I eventually buy through Amazon, Buy.com, etc, may as well earn you a link-through commission.

But now I'm just rambling....

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Craven, I'd offer my services for free as your official collection agent. I'll handle cash, check, money orders, or credit cards. I've handled donations for a nonprofit in California called POST (Peninsula Open Space Trust, located in Menlo Park. Their collections are in the thousands every month (some checks are in the thousands). As for 'trust,' I've worked as audit manager, controller, fiscal manager, director of administration services, auditor (of nonprofits), and consultant during my career. I will establish internal control systems to ensure the integrity of the funds collected. I'm now retired, but will probably be impaneled as a member of the Civil Grand Jury of Santa Clara County next month. The term is one year. If you are interested, feel free to PM me with any concerns. BTW, I also like the idea of creating a nonprofit for A2K. This will allow donors to deduct their contributions, and all monies collected will be directed towards covering the cost of A2K and/or other charities determined at a later date. c.i.

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Craven -- I'm in public relations, so I get asked about these things all the time. Here's my two cents...

Don't even think about monthly payments or donations. That is too much to keep track of, and it presents another problem...monthly collections. Think in terms of annual payments or donations. That cuts the labor down to 1/12th.

You might consider an annual promotion. We're only talking about two or three thousand here. Talk to your ad agency about promotional contests. They may have another client who would trade a really great prize for a simple banner ad all year, or even some sort of credit on the home page. There are plenty of imaginative people on A2K. We could all submit contest ideas on a forum here. Then we can pay $5 or so per entry, and it would all be over in two or three weeks. Lots of fun for everyone, and payment/participation is voluntary.

Just a few ideas...

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Well, I'd be happy to pay $5/month if I could pay it in a lump sum. And I use PayPal regularly.

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CodeBorg wrote:

11) Premium services I would pay for:
You know how images that are hosted on geocities canNOT be referenced from A2K? I'd pay $10/month for 100MB of image, mp3, .html, .zip space that can be referred to by any website. Actually, how about 10GB? Pricewatch.com shows 250GB drives are only $258 these days...

LOL, lemme break it down for you:

The space is no problem. Right now I have plenty of space. The problem is:

A) Hosting MP3s is a big responsibility due to legal concerns.

B) The space is no biggie like I said, the problem is bandwidth. I'll up he space and lower the traffic it can handle. For the purpose you mention you need much less traffic than I'd be willing to give but now if you started a download farm..... lol, not saying you would but that would compromise security.

I'd say for that amount i could do something like this:

FTP access, no root, database, or control panel access.
1-5GB of space
3 GB of bandwidth
PHP
No cgi bin (or at least no form mailers)

It's more space but less access and bandwith than standard accounts.

CodeBorg wrote:

12) Hotmail sucks, but Yahoo's okay for email (hard to compete).
A few places already offer free websites with fancy statistics and discussion groups (hard to compete). However...

Yup, the free versions are limited but the paid versions are cheaper than I'd give em for.

But, I'd give more space (not really needed though), a downside is the webmail system, it is not as good so it would only be good for the POP crowd. In fact the only two good things about it is that you can get a good name and you can fit a year's worth of email (depending on how big the inboxes are made).

CodeBorg wrote:

I like Amazon's "User Lists" but I hesitate to use it because the interface is clunky and my booklist gets stuck on Amazon. If you created a generic, web-wide, product "User Lists" facility, along with a "Guide to Shopping All Over The Internet"... that might be fun to play with. I have about 300 books I'm trying to organize, and the ones I eventually buy through Amazon, Buy.com, etc, may as well earn you a link-through commission.

I have a store planned. It would be a specific area of affiliate links. But I gotta think it through.

CodeBorg wrote:

But now I'm just rambling....

No no, you are helping, your thing about hosting is a good one. That's exactly the nich of the hosting market that i can make a good offer to. i can't make a good offer to a popular database driven site because they would consume too much of the server RAM and CPU.

CI,

I don't even know what legal ramifications there are in making this a non-profit organization. It sounds interesting but also sounds like a lot of work and red tape.

Visitor wrote:

Don't even think about monthly payments or donations. That is too much to keep track of, and it presents another problem...monthly collections. Think in terms of annual payments or donations. That cuts the labor down to 1/12th.

The thing is, through paypal I do not have to collect or keep track of anything. That's half the allure.

I get your point about annual subscriptions but in my mind it's like taking out more credit and assuming greater responsibility.

Again, I know I'm being picky but I don't want to screw up.

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I lost the thermometer but I gotta do some work.

I'll be back later.

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I'd be happy to pet hamsters and whip rabbits if need be.

Perhaps you could branch out into Internet porn, or smuggle in marijuana from Hawaii? At the very least you'd met some interesting folks.

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Craven, I'll go to the public library tomorrow and look for books on the Legal Issues of Nonprofits. c.i.

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Mr Stillwater,

Even the legal one (porn) is forbidden by the host I use. :-)

CI,

I doubt I'll be taking that route any time soon.

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Rabbit whipping is illegal AND immoral, Pond Scum!

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