You mean I'm not the only one????

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Paaskynen wrote:
Your irony is misplaced. You accuse me of anti-Americanism because I list influences from American popular culture that you yourself consider to be less than uplifting. I would like to point out however what I wrote in my original message:

Quote:
One must add the footnote, though, that such tendencies exist in many cultures, but they do not have the means of transmission that the American economy and popular culture have.

Of course there are films and TV programmes made in Finland and some of them are not so bad, but the Finnish media market (serving but 5 million people) cannot begin to compete with the American market, something you do not seem to appreciate (how many Finnish films have you seen in your life?). Works like like the Kalevala cannot be created anymore if your "dynamic" culture rides roughshoud over others. There will be less for you to enjoy.

FYI; MacDonalds is not ubiquitous in Finland since the market has been cornered by a Finnish chain, which uses a similar formula, but it is the insiduous idea of fastfood that is propagated into the living rooms that makes people frequent these places. After all, it has already destroyed much of the local food culture (and the health of a generation of young people) in the US (without anyone forcing any burger quota on them). We are not yet at a point where school restaurants are run by Ronald MacDonald and serve macwhoppers and coke (The restaurant at my school serves salad and local bread, a square meal and water, milk or kotikalja (a traditional malt drink, so now you know four things about Finland ).)

If the prevailing cultural influences that reach us through the media would be French, the fast food industry would struggle and bistros would be booming and the youths would play cool by engaging in boundless political discussions and sipping wine at lunch would be hip. Would you then accuse me of French bashing if I pointed out those influences?

Now, let me rephrase my question: What do you consider uplifting elements in American popular culture of today? (let's leave aside whether those are transmitted abroad or not).

It's unfortunate for you that there seems to be a market in Finland for American entertainment products and not those of France, England, India or Canada (among others), but American television shows and movies are not addictive drugs. Finns do not have to watch them. If fastfood was not convenient and tasty, it's unlikely that all the advertising in the world could sustain its popularity.

You've characterized American cultural influence in a totally negative manner. It's difficult for me to believe that this is an informed and objective opinion, but you are entitled to your opinions and your fears as well. I don't think you'll be able to stop your fellow citizens from enjoying aspects of the American culture, and as much as a smarmy critique of that culture posted on a cyper-forum may make you feel just a little but better, it's not going to stem whatever cultural tide is rushing over your country.

Anti-Americanism, and that is what you are displaying, is, in many ways, understandable. To some extent, it may even be warranted, but if American culture is so shallow and bare as you suggest, then if I were you I think I might find more fault with my fellow countrymen who consume it in such great quantities, rather than the people who send it their way.

I'm really not interested in defending American culture to you or pachy for that matter so I'll pass on your rephrased question.

Why, Finn? Is Anti-Americanism becoming difficult to defend? I thought Paaskynen's Finnish input was interesting and valuable, and I quote from his/her post:

Now if I were to consider American cultural influences that I observe here it would include rampant consumerism and fast food (both short term materialist goals), a focus on the superficial (the wrapping sells more than the content, special effects before depth of plot, cosmetic surgery and reality TV), an obsession with pubescent sex and with crime (nudity is sex (nipplegate!), sex is evil and (armed) criminals are heroes (gansta rap!)), a total disregard for those who do not win and, finally, a tendency to oversimplify complex issues and make them into black and white matters where there is no middle ground (i.e. the place where organisations like the UN can operate) leading to an inability to accept dissenting views ("they do/see things differently and therefore they do/see it wrong", "You are either with us, or with the terrorrists").

I think he/she answered your question about the central theme that runs thru American 'culture' very well. It's a quick fix, and instant gratification. It's exploitation.com - It's insidious, like a cancer. And, like BernardR said, it appeals to the 'lowest common denominator'; translated -the poorer aspects of the population. McD's and the like is cheap, filling (terrible) food and the TV shows appeal to people with a 6th grade mentality. Come to think of it, so does Fox TV Laughing

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What Pachelbel does not know is that without the USA the Canadians would be living in caves. This from a Canadian legislator..
*********************************************************
We need to understand on both sides of the border that our mutual national interests are closely intertwined. For example, the huge and largely invisible trade with Canada supports 5.2 million jobs for Americans, including valuable jobs in every state of the Union. This is a very important consideration for those in Congress facing protectionist legislation that would damage the world's largest and most successful trading relationship.

For Canada, part of the bilateral equation is simple. The DNA of the Canadian economy is trade. More than 42 percent of the Canadian economy is linked to exports, compared with only 10 percent of the US economy. Well over 80 percent of those exports go to the US - on average $20,000 in two-way trade crosses our mutual border every second of every day of the year. US trade with one province alone, Ontario, is larger than US trade with Japan.

********************************************************

We would lost 5.2 Million Jobs but the Canadians would lose 80% of 42% of their ENTIRE ECONOMY.

Canada is no more than a dependent of the USA and

It is still classed with Cuba, and North Korea as a backward Medical provider---excoriated by its OWN SUPREME COURT FOR NOT PROVIDING PROPER MEDICAL CARE.

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BernardR wrote:

What Pachelbel does not know is that without the USA the Canadians would be living in caves. This from a Canadian legislator..
*********************************************************
We need to understand on both sides of the border that our mutual national interests are closely intertwined. For example, the huge and largely invisible trade with Canada supports 5.2 million jobs for Americans, including valuable jobs in every state of the Union. This is a very important consideration for those in Congress facing protectionist legislation that would damage the world's largest and most successful trading relationship.

For Canada, part of the bilateral equation is simple. The DNA of the Canadian economy is trade. More than 42 percent of the Canadian economy is linked to exports, compared with only 10 percent of the US economy. Well over 80 percent of those exports go to the US - on average $20,000 in two-way trade crosses our mutual border every second of every day of the year. US trade with one province alone, Ontario, is larger than US trade with Japan.

********************************************************

We would lost 5.2 Million Jobs but the Canadians would lose 80% of 42% of their ENTIRE ECONOMY.

Canada is no more than a dependent of the USA and

It is still classed with Cuba, and North Korea as a backward Medical provider---excoriated by its OWN SUPREME COURT FOR NOT PROVIDING PROPER MEDICAL CARE.

Quoting a letter to the editor from Ove Madsen in the Montana Senior Voice:

"I have read all about the health care plans in the paper. I have done a little work to find out what the general public Canadians think about their health plan. Everytime I see a car with Canadian license plates, I go up and talk to them. They are all nice to talk with, and I ask them how they like their health care plan. So far, 99% of the Canadians I've talked to like their system. They say it is such a peace of mind and the service at the doctor's office and hospitals is really quite good. If the ordinary run of the people like it, that's all we need to know."

According the Harris Poll of all industrial nations, Canadians are the most satisfied with their health care.

****************************************************
'Both countries are intertwined', sadly, this is true. You cannot do without us, and we apparently sell America our gas, oil, water and electricity. Your country exports only 10%??? That means you import 90%!!! Shocked

Not good economics, Bernie. 99% of our gas, oil, etc goes to America. I'd say you need us quite a bit.

Your comment about caves is childish, silly and meaningless.

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Pachelbel- If you know anything about Histolriography, you should know that the lowest form of evidence is anecdotal. And letters to the editor are anecdotal.

Your GDP per person is anemic. It does not begin to match the per person GDP of the United States.

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pachelbel wrote:

Why, Finn? Is Anti-Americanism becoming difficult to defend? I thought Paaskynen's Finnish input was interesting and valuable, and I quote from his/her post:

I think he/she answered your question about the central theme that runs thru American 'culture' very well. It's a quick fix, and instant gratification. It's exploitation.com - It's insidious, like a cancer. And, like BernardR said, it appeals to the 'lowest common denominator'; translated -the poorer aspects of the population. McD's and the like is cheap, filling (terrible) food and the TV shows appeal to people with a 6th grade mentality. Come to think of it, so does Fox TV

Anti-Americanism is, indeed, difficult to defend against because it's practitioners are remarkably irrational and close minded. I've no interest in trying to logically penetrate the shells illogical people have extruded about themselves.

Pachy you are, frankly, a punk provocateur. If I thought your bilious spray about America was but bait to the more jingoist posters on A2K I might consider you an interesting contributor. However, it is clear that you believe, body and soul, the calumny you spew.

My lovely wife is Puerto Rican. Her less than lovely grandmother considers anyone Irish, German, Swedish, Norwegian, and English (Surprise? My heritage.) to be trash. Imagine the familial earthquake created by my response "Wait, you're Puerto Rican..."

Wait pachy, you're Canadian.

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BernardR wrote:

Pachelbel- If you know anything about Histolriography, you should know that the lowest form of evidence is anecdotal. And letters to the editor are anecdotal.

Your GDP per person is anemic. It does not begin to match the per person GDP of the United States.

"Histolriography'?? I'd love to see a definition.

GDP of any country is based upon the domestic wealth divided by the population. Obviously Canada is only 1/10 the population of the US.

What it does not tell you is how that wealth is distributed throughout the population.

In the U.S. 1% percent of the population controls 90% of the wealth.

This 1% skew the average so that while the relatively few millionaires and billionaires are raking in the dough there are millions of people who live below the poverty level, which is well below the $40,000 average you quoted. 40 million people plus cannot afford health insurance. Canada has a lower percentage of millionaires controlling a smaller percentage of the total wealth and have, per capita, more people making the $34,000 that is the average income, and everyone has health insurance, regardless.

How many Americans are making $20,000, and how many are making a million?

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

pachelbel wrote:

Why, Finn? Is Anti-Americanism becoming difficult to defend? I thought Paaskynen's Finnish input was interesting and valuable, and I quote from his/her post:

I think he/she answered your question about the central theme that runs thru American 'culture' very well. It's a quick fix, and instant gratification. It's exploitation.com - It's insidious, like a cancer. And, like BernardR said, it appeals to the 'lowest common denominator'; translated -the poorer aspects of the population. McD's and the like is cheap, filling (terrible) food and the TV shows appeal to people with a 6th grade mentality. Come to think of it, so does Fox TV

Anti-Americanism is, indeed, difficult to defend against because it's practitioners are remarkably irrational and close minded. I've no interest in trying to logically penetrate the shells illogical people have extruded about themselves.

Pachy you are, frankly, a punk provocateur. If I thought your bilious spray about America was but bait to the more jingoist posters on A2K I might consider you an interesting contributor. However, it is clear that you believe, body and soul, the calumny you spew.

My lovely wife is Puerto Rican. Her less than lovely grandmother considers anyone Irish, German, Swedish, Norwegian, and English (Surprise? My heritage.) to be trash. Imagine the familial earthquake created by my response "Wait, you're Puerto Rican..."

Wait pachy, you're Canadian.

I have no problem with people of other races, Finn. I do have a problem with America thinking it can bully the planet and believing it is above the law. So does the rest of the world. America is not liked world-wide, and that FACT is available via newsources. I would post a few but I'm sure you're quite capable of searching the 'net.

I had thought to explore why America is disliked - that is why I posted the article about businesses trying to bridge the gap by their 'handshake' with people from other countries, to try & alleviate the image of the ugly American. I didn't invent that catch phrase. Cool

Even though most Canadians would like to, realistically we cannot ignore America. Geographically we are stuck. Historically we are the only former British dominion to be connected so closely to a superpower. It's quite challenging. That we Canadians have managed to hang onto our culture says something about the Canadian spirit, often maligned by the American press, who so little understands any nationality other than its own. I'm sure you have encountered people who have a problem with your having a wife from Puerto Rico? What if she were Iraqi or Iranian? Or Lebanese? Americans assume everyone from the Middle East are Arab, wear a turban and ride a camel. There is no excuse for such ignorance in the 21st century, and it is this attitude of 'we don't have to care, we're Americans' that will be America's undoing.
Now I'll get off of my soapbox Laughing

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Here's one for you Bernie,

Canada is one of the planet's most comfortable, and caring, societies. The United Nations Human Development Index cited the country as the most desirable place in the world to live. This year a World Bank study named Canada the globe's second wealthiest society after Australia.
Time magazine

Surprised

Sorry - the U.S. was not included Shocked

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Add'l info for you to digest:

Most and Least Livable Countries: UN Human Development Index, 2005
The Human Development Index (HDI), published annually by the UN, ranks nations according to their citizens' quality of life rather than strictly by a nation's traditional economic figures. The criteria for calculating rankings include life expectancy, educational attainment, and adjusted real income. The 2005 index is based on 2003 figures.

"Most Livable" Countries, 2005
1. Norway 11. Japan
2. Iceland 12. Netherlands
3. Australia 13. Finland
4. Luxembourg 14. Denmark
5. Canada 15. United Kingdom
6. Sweden 16. France
7. Switzerland 17. Austria
8. Ireland 18. Italy
9. Belgium 19. New Zealand
10. United States 20. Germany
"Least Livable" Countries, 2005
1. Niger 11. Congo, Dem. Rep. of
2. Sierra Leone 12. Zambia
3. Burkina Faso 13. Malawi
4. Mali 14. Tanzania
5. Chad 15. Côte d'Ivoire
6. Guinea-Bissau 16. Benin
7. Central African Republic 17. Eritrea
8. Ethiopia 18. Angola
9. Burundi 19. Rwanda
10. Mozambique 20. Nigeria

Source: Human Development Report, 2005, United Nations. Web: hdr.undp.org .

Again, Bernie old boy, the US is #10 and Canada #5 on the "Most Desirable Places to Live".

That says it all, doesn't it? People are NOT clamoring to get to America. That's what your media tells you. Of course.

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Pachelbel- I stopped believing anything the UN said after Kofi Annan and his son were implcated in the Oil for Food scandal. If you knew anything about New York and the UN you would know that on many doors in the UN building you can find the graffiti---Down with the US.

Those are all African and Middle Eastern countries, of course.

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Pachelbel- Digest this-------

SIGNIFICANT IMMIGRATION WAVES
Although there has always been a flow of people between Canada and the United States, reliable data has only been kept since the 1910 census of the United States and the 1911 census of Canada. Migration is also somewhat seasonal: the Canadian American population swells in the winter months. States such as Florida and Arizona have strong seasonal populations of Canadians, which affects items such as media for Canadians in the United States. By 1990, almost 30 percent of Canadians in the United States were 65 and older, which lowers the average income level for the group.

The number of Canadians moving to the United States has climbed steadily since the 1850s. Based on the 1990 report Migration between the United States and Canada, migration between the two countries was relatively unrestricted until immigration laws were changed in the United States in 1965 and in Canada in 1976. In the early part of the twentieth century, for example, more than 1.2 million Canadians crossed the border to live in the United States. Interestingly, this was four times more than the number moving from the United States to Canada. The decade of the 1920s set a record with nearly one million Canadians heading south, primarily to take advantage of the industrial boom in northeastern and north central states. The number of Canadians in the United States peaked at 1.3 million in 1930, after which the economic depression and World War II slowed emigration. The flow picked up markedly in the 1950s and early 1960s, however, because of greater job opportunities and higher wages in the United States. From the 1930s to the 1980s, more than 2.3 million Canadians immigrated to the United States. When the immigration laws began to tighten between 1960 and 1970, however, the annual number dropped by almost 60 percent.

This decline continued through the 1980s and had a marked effect on U.S. immigration. While in the early 1960s Canadians made up almost 12 percent of total immigrants to the United States, by the early 1980s that number fell to just two percent. In fact, almost 65 percent of the immigrants listed on the 1980 U.S. census immigrated before 1960.

During the period when immigration laws were less restrictive, crossing the border was less an international shift than a movement based upon economic influences?-just like internal migration. When the laws tightened, the patterns became more controlled and more typical of long-distance international migration, according to Migration between the United States and Canada. Demographically, most Canadians who immigrated to the United States before 1960 live in the northern states, while those who came later tend to live in states further south.

***********************************************************

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you, Pachelbel?

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The people at the UN Human Development Index don't know much either, I guess...... Laughing

Canada comes up as the better place to live, doesn't it?
Did that FACT keep you awake all night, Bernie? How do you explain that Canada is #5 on the best place to live on the planet and the US is #10 Laughing

Some people, even Canadians, will choose quantity over quality. Maybe they are 1/2 American. If they choose to move to the US, great, so what? Leaves more for us. Of course, there aren't stats that show how many Canucks end up moving BACK to Canada, are there? The ones I have personally spoken to said they couldn't take the violence in America, and they missed the beauty and values here. They also could not afford the huge monthly payments for medical.

How do I come up with the $800 per month for a couple for medical? A simple call to Blue Cross, Bernie. When you are retired and your employer does not pick up your medical costs anymore, which more and more are doing, YOU end up picking up the tab. Why don't you give Blue Cross a call? I would hate to pay so much to receive the substandard care you get in the states.

You are very stupid about your knowledge of Canada - you don't seem to get that Quebec has separate laws from the rest of Canada. The article you post over and over is about QUEBEC MEDICAL LAWS AND THE SUPREME COURTS DECISION THERE. Get a clue. It does not affect the rest of the provinces, which you cannot even name. Duh.

Having lived in both countries I assure you that it is you who know nothing of which you speak. Go ahead and argue with the UN and their stats.

We are not an overcrowded dump like America is. You guys are like too many rats in a cage, and I am very glad I made the move to Canada years ago. I wouldn't trade my passport for yours anyday, or for any amount of money.

I don't have time to argue the well documented merits of living in Canada. If you like America, go for it. Enjoy your huge deficit and your idiot leader Twisted Evil

Have a nice day...I'm going boating on an uncrowded fjord where there aren't any yanks......they can't afford the gas to get here Cool

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Most and Least Livable Countries: UN Human Development Index, 2005
The Human Development Index (HDI), published annually by the UN, ranks nations according to their citizens' quality of life rather than strictly by a nation's traditional economic figures. The criteria for calculating rankings include life expectancy, educational attainment, and adjusted real income. The 2005 index is based on 2003 figures.

"Most Livable" Countries, 2005
1. Norway 11. Japan
2. Iceland 12. Netherlands
3. Australia 13. Finland
4. Luxembourg 14. Denmark
5. Canada 15. United Kingdom
6. Sweden 16. France
7. Switzerland 17. Austria
8. Ireland 18. Italy
9. Belgium 19. New Zealand
10. United States 20. Germany

"Least Livable" Countries, 2005
1. Niger 11. Congo, Dem. Rep. of
2. Sierra Leone 12. Zambia
3. Burkina Faso 13. Malawi
4. Mali 14. Tanzania
5. Chad 15. Côte d'Ivoire
6. Guinea-Bissau 16. Benin
7. Central African Republic 17. Eritrea
8. Ethiopia 18. Angola
9. Burundi 19. Rwanda
10. Mozambique 20. Nigeria

Source: Human Development Report, 2005, United Nations. Web: hdr.undp.org .

I rest my case. Cool

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pachelbel wrote:

I have no problem with people of other races, Finn. I do have a problem with America thinking it can bully the planet and believing it is above the law. So does the rest of the world. America is not liked world-wide, and that FACT is available via newsources. I would post a few but I'm sure you're quite capable of searching the 'net.

Let's save you a lot of typing and stipulate that a very large number of people around the world are not fond of the US.

I had thought to explore why America is disliked

Yeah right.

- that is why I posted the article about businesses trying to bridge the gap by their 'handshake' with people from other countries, to try & alleviate the image of the ugly American. I didn't invent that catch phrase.

Even though most Canadians would like to, realistically we cannot ignore America. Geographically we are stuck. Historically we are the only former British dominion to be connected so closely to a superpower. It's quite challenging. That we Canadians have managed to hang onto our culture says something about the Canadian spirit,

What is the Canadian culture? It seems to be it is defined more by what it is not (American) than what it is.

often maligned by the American press, who so little understands any nationality other than its own. I'm sure you have encountered people who have a problem with your having a wife from Puerto Rico? What if she were Iraqi or Iranian? Or Lebanese? Americans assume everyone from the Middle East are Arab, wear a turban and ride a camel.

Of course this is not a true statement anymore than is "Canadians assume Americans are all assh*les."

There is no excuse for such ignorance in the 21st century, and it is this attitude of 'we don't have to care, we're Americans' that will be America's undoing.

You are but another voice in the long chain of anti-Americans predicting America's undoing. I have no idea what your personal circumstances may be, but I doubt you have any specific reason to hate America (The US ruined your business, it killed your parents, etc). Consider how much time you spend criticizing America. Almost all of your A2K posts are anti-American rants, and I suspect this is not the only forum in which you voice your displeasure for the vast land south of your border. Have you ever stopped and thought how much you are allowing America to direct your thinking? That's power.

There is no need to defend America to you or any of the other anti-Americans in this forum. Firstly because no one is going to change your mind, and secondly because there is no reason to try. America doesn't have to care what you think about it, and it is this that galls you so much. You and like-minded individuals are desperate to paint a picture of America suffering because it doesn't care what pissants like you think about it. I know it's tough not to have any say what-so-ever over the course followed by the most powerful nation on earth, but that's life. If you want your voice heard in America, join the hundreds of thousands of other Canadians (my brother-in-law included) who have moved here and become American citizens.Now I'll get off of my soapbox

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Seems to me that some A2K posters spend a lot of time defending themselves against Canada.

What are they/you afraid of? That our reputation in the world is better than yours? That we have a surplus budget and you don't?

Empires come, empires go; i.e. Rome, England, Venice, Austria, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, Russia, etc. The list goes on. You're next.

Yes, it's an American attitude of 'we don't have to care, we're Americans', sneer sneer. That's such an endearing trait, and bound to make the world just love Americans, don't you think?

Funny, when Americans have a problem, they sure want the rest of the world to join them.

They start a pre-emptive war and the world is supposed to rush to help America because THEY got bombed. America thinks nothing of bombing other countries; they've been at that game a long, long time. It's as if these countries don't suffer pain and death as well. Didn't like it when it happened to you? Boo hoo time?

Canadians don't live with some BS 'orange alert' or whatever your colour is today. Feel safer, do you? Bushie's friend binLaden is still on the loose.

China has 1.8 BILLION people. I'd say you'd best watch yourselves. They are much harder working than Americans and more intelligent, too.
In fact, you Yanks have a deficit with China in the 900 BILLION bracket. Nice going.

I would much rather live in a country that is respected (Canada) than one that is laughed at (America).

Sorry, bub, I moved FROM the U.S. to get away from the idiocy. Those of you who like quantity & cheap goods should continue to move to the States.

Canada is rated #5 in the world as the 'most livable' country in the world. It's rated on the QUALITY of life.

You're rated #10.

Of course, you don't care what anyone thinks........... Laughing

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pachelbel wrote:

Seems to me that some A2K posters spend a lot of time defending themselves against Canada.

Who?

Quote:

What are they/you afraid of? That our reputation in the world is better than yours? That we have a surplus budget and you don't?

Um, no.

Quote:

Empires come, empires go; i.e. Rome, England, Venice, Austria, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, Russia, etc. The list goes on. You're next.

We aren't an empire. But I know you won't let that fact cloud your anti-American bias.

Quote:

Yes, it's an American attitude of 'we don't have to care, we're Americans', sneer sneer. That's such an endearing trait, and bound to make the world just love Americans, don't you think?

I don't care what the world thinks.

Quote:

Funny, when Americans have a problem, they sure want the rest of the world to join them.

Give an example.

Quote:

They start a pre-emptive war and the world is supposed to rush to help America because THEY got bombed. America thinks nothing of bombing other countries; they've been at that game a long, long time. It's as if these countries don't suffer pain and death as well. Didn't like it when it happened to you? Boo hoo time?

Bomb us at your peril.

Quote:

Canadians don't live with some BS 'orange alert' or whatever your colour is today.

Who would want to bomb Canada?

Quote:

Feel safer, do you?

No, but I bet you feel safer because we're next door.

Quote:

Bushie's friend binLaden is still on the loose.

"Bushie's friend"?

Quote:

China has 1.8 BILLION people. I'd say you'd best watch yourselves. They are much harder working than Americans and more intelligent, too.

Then there's no question that the Chinese work harder and are more intelligent than Canadians. Are you watching yourself?

Quote:

In fact, you Yanks have a deficit with China in the 900 BILLION bracket. Nice going.

Why do you care?

Quote:

I would much rather live in a country that is respected (Canada) than one that is laughed at (America).

Good for you.

Quote:

Sorry, bub, I moved FROM the U.S. to get away from the idiocy. Those of you who like quantity & cheap goods should continue to move to the States.

You moved away from the US because you hate it. The anger is evident in your postings, which are often emotional and detached from reality.

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I was told not to feed the trolls Cool

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Canada is a nice place. I used to go there a lot on business with my last job. I met a lot of good people and have many Canadian friends. I am happy for them that they get to live in Canada.

It's a good thing that the political views of a few Canadians does not speak for such a nice place.

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I am very much afraid that Pachelbel has either not read the material below or doesn't know what to do with it. He may, of course, hold that it is erroneous but, no one will, of course, accept that unless he proves it.

Note below- I will highlight several sentences at the bottom of the post---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pachelbel- Digest this-------

SIGNIFICANT IMMIGRATION WAVES
Although there has always been a flow of people between Canada and the United States, reliable data has only been kept since the 1910 census of the United States and the 1911 census of Canada. Migration is also somewhat seasonal: the Canadian American population swells in the winter months. States such as Florida and Arizona have strong seasonal populations of Canadians, which affects items such as media for Canadians in the United States. By 1990, almost 30 percent of Canadians in the United States were 65 and older, which lowers the average income level for the group.

The number of Canadians moving to the United States has climbed steadily since the 1850s. Based on the 1990 report Migration between the United States and Canada, migration between the two countries was relatively unrestricted until immigration laws were changed in the United States in 1965 and in Canada in 1976. CCCCCheading south, primarily to take advantage of the industrial boom in northeastern and north central states. The number of Canadians in the United States peaked at 1.3 million in 1930, after which the economic depression and World War II slowed emigration.

This decline continued through the 1980s and had a marked effect on U.S. immigration. While in the early 1960s Canadians made up almost 12 percent of total immigrants to the United States, by the early 1980s that number fell to just two percent. In fact, almost 65 percent of the immigrants listed on the 1980 U.S. census immigrated before 1960.

During the period when immigration laws were less restrictive, crossing the border was less an international shift than a movement based upon economic influences?-just like internal migration. When the laws tightened, the patterns became more controlled and more typical of long-distance international migration, according to Migration between the United States and Canada. Demographically, most Canadians who immigrated to the United States before 1960 live in the northern states, while those who came later tend to live in states further south.

***********************************************************

QUOTE

In the early part of the twentieth century, for example, more than 1.2 million Canadians crossed the border to live in the United States. Interestingly, this was four times more than the number moving from the United States to Canada. The decade of the 1920s set a record with nearly one million Canadians.

FOUR TIMES MORE THAN THE NUMBER MOVING FROM THE UNITED STATES TO CANADA.

How could that be? From Paradise( Canada) to Inferno (USA)?

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McGentrix wrote:

Canada is a nice place. I used to go there a lot on business with my last job. I met a lot of good people and have many Canadian friends. I am happy for them that they get to live in Canada.

It's a good thing that the political views of a few Canadians does not speak for such a nice place.

The opinion that one has of a place while visiting for business or pleasure or via friends is very different when one actually lives there.

Do not presume to know what Canadians feel about Americans. Most Canadians will not tell you how they feel to your face. They are too polite. Being as I am an ex-pat, I say what I think.

I hear plenty of talk that is anti-American, much more than even 5 years ago. People in Canada used to ask why I'd want to move to Canada, assuming the States were so great. They don't ask anymore because they know why.

Just because Harper is Bushie's little puppet does not mean that all Canadians like Americans. There's a big move to not integrate with the US any more than we have to. Yes it is a nice place and we'd like to keep it that way, thank you.

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You mean I'm not the only one????

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