Paaskynen wrote:Your irony is misplaced. You accuse me of anti-Americanism because I list influences from American popular culture that you yourself consider to be less than uplifting. I would like to point out however what I wrote in my original message:
Quote:One must add the footnote, though, that such tendencies exist in many cultures, but they do not have the means of transmission that the American economy and popular culture have.
Of course there are films and TV programmes made in Finland and some of them are not so bad, but the Finnish media market (serving but 5 million people) cannot begin to compete with the American market, something you do not seem to appreciate (how many Finnish films have you seen in your life?). Works like like the Kalevala cannot be created anymore if your "dynamic" culture rides roughshoud over others. There will be less for you to enjoy.
FYI; MacDonalds is not ubiquitous in Finland since the market has been cornered by a Finnish chain, which uses a similar formula, but it is the insiduous idea of fastfood that is propagated into the living rooms that makes people frequent these places. After all, it has already destroyed much of the local food culture (and the health of a generation of young people) in the US (without anyone forcing any burger quota on them). We are not yet at a point where school restaurants are run by Ronald MacDonald and serve macwhoppers and coke (The restaurant at my school serves salad and local bread, a square meal and water, milk or kotikalja (a traditional malt drink, so now you know four things about Finland).)
If the prevailing cultural influences that reach us through the media would be French, the fast food industry would struggle and bistros would be booming and the youths would play cool by engaging in boundless political discussions and sipping wine at lunch would be hip. Would you then accuse me of French bashing if I pointed out those influences?
Now, let me rephrase my question: What do you consider uplifting elements in American popular culture of today? (let's leave aside whether those are transmitted abroad or not).
It's unfortunate for you that there seems to be a market in Finland for American entertainment products and not those of France, England, India or Canada (among others), but American television shows and movies are not addictive drugs. Finns do not have to watch them. If fastfood was not convenient and tasty, it's unlikely that all the advertising in the world could sustain its popularity.
You've characterized American cultural influence in a totally negative manner. It's difficult for me to believe that this is an informed and objective opinion, but you are entitled to your opinions and your fears as well. I don't think you'll be able to stop your fellow citizens from enjoying aspects of the American culture, and as much as a smarmy critique of that culture posted on a cyper-forum may make you feel just a little but better, it's not going to stem whatever cultural tide is rushing over your country.
Anti-Americanism, and that is what you are displaying, is, in many ways, understandable. To some extent, it may even be warranted, but if American culture is so shallow and bare as you suggest, then if I were you I think I might find more fault with my fellow countrymen who consume it in such great quantities, rather than the people who send it their way.
I'm really not interested in defending American culture to you or pachy for that matter so I'll pass on your rephrased question.
What Pachelbel does not know is that without the USA the Canadians would be living in caves. This from a Canadian legislator..
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We need to understand on both sides of the border that our mutual national interests are closely intertwined. For example, the huge and largely invisible trade with Canada supports 5.2 million jobs for Americans, including valuable jobs in every state of the Union. This is a very important consideration for those in Congress facing protectionist legislation that would damage the world's largest and most successful trading relationship.
For Canada, part of the bilateral equation is simple. The DNA of the Canadian economy is trade. More than 42 percent of the Canadian economy is linked to exports, compared with only 10 percent of the US economy. Well over 80 percent of those exports go to the US - on average $20,000 in two-way trade crosses our mutual border every second of every day of the year. US trade with one province alone, Ontario, is larger than US trade with Japan.
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We would lost 5.2 Million Jobs but the Canadians would lose 80% of 42% of their ENTIRE ECONOMY.
Canada is no more than a dependent of the USA and
It is still classed with Cuba, and North Korea as a backward Medical provider---excoriated by its OWN SUPREME COURT FOR NOT PROVIDING PROPER MEDICAL CARE.
Not good economics, Bernie. 99% of our gas, oil, etc goes to America. I'd say you need us quite a bit.
Why, Finn? Is Anti-Americanism becoming difficult to defend? I thought Paaskynen's Finnish input was interesting and valuable, and I quote from his/her post:
I think he/she answered your question about the central theme that runs thru American 'culture' very well. It's a quick fix, and instant gratification. It's exploitation.com - It's insidious, like a cancer. And, like BernardR said, it appeals to the 'lowest common denominator'; translated -the poorer aspects of the population. McD's and the like is cheap, filling (terrible) food and the TV shows appeal to people with a 6th grade mentality. Come to think of it, so does Fox TV
pachelbel wrote:
Why, Finn? Is Anti-Americanism becoming difficult to defend? I thought Paaskynen's Finnish input was interesting and valuable, and I quote from his/her post:
I think he/she answered your question about the central theme that runs thru American 'culture' very well. It's a quick fix, and instant gratification. It's exploitation.com - It's insidious, like a cancer. And, like BernardR said, it appeals to the 'lowest common denominator'; translated -the poorer aspects of the population. McD's and the like is cheap, filling (terrible) food and the TV shows appeal to people with a 6th grade mentality. Come to think of it, so does Fox TV
Anti-Americanism is, indeed, difficult to defend against because it's practitioners are remarkably irrational and close minded. I've no interest in trying to logically penetrate the shells illogical people have extruded about themselves.
Pachy you are, frankly, a punk provocateur. If I thought your bilious spray about America was but bait to the more jingoist posters on A2K I might consider you an interesting contributor. However, it is clear that you believe, body and soul, the calumny you spew.
My lovely wife is Puerto Rican. Her less than lovely grandmother considers anyone Irish, German, Swedish, Norwegian, and English (Surprise? My heritage.) to be trash. Imagine the familial earthquake created by my response "Wait, you're Puerto Rican..."
Wait pachy, you're Canadian.
Sorry - the U.S. was not included
Canada comes up as the better place to live, doesn't it? 
Have a nice day...I'm going boating on an uncrowded fjord where there aren't any yanks......they can't afford the gas to get here
I have no problem with people of other races, Finn. I do have a problem with America thinking it can bully the planet and believing it is above the law. So does the rest of the world. America is not liked world-wide, and that FACT is available via newsources. I would post a few but I'm sure you're quite capable of searching the 'net.
Let's save you a lot of typing and stipulate that a very large number of people around the world are not fond of the US.
I had thought to explore why America is disliked
Yeah right.
- that is why I posted the article about businesses trying to bridge the gap by their 'handshake' with people from other countries, to try & alleviate the image of the ugly American. I didn't invent that catch phrase.
Even though most Canadians would like to, realistically we cannot ignore America. Geographically we are stuck. Historically we are the only former British dominion to be connected so closely to a superpower. It's quite challenging. That we Canadians have managed to hang onto our culture says something about the Canadian spirit,
What is the Canadian culture? It seems to be it is defined more by what it is not (American) than what it is.
often maligned by the American press, who so little understands any nationality other than its own. I'm sure you have encountered people who have a problem with your having a wife from Puerto Rico? What if she were Iraqi or Iranian? Or Lebanese? Americans assume everyone from the Middle East are Arab, wear a turban and ride a camel.
Of course this is not a true statement anymore than is "Canadians assume Americans are all assh*les."
There is no excuse for such ignorance in the 21st century, and it is this attitude of 'we don't have to care, we're Americans' that will be America's undoing.
You are but another voice in the long chain of anti-Americans predicting America's undoing. I have no idea what your personal circumstances may be, but I doubt you have any specific reason to hate America (The US ruined your business, it killed your parents, etc). Consider how much time you spend criticizing America. Almost all of your A2K posts are anti-American rants, and I suspect this is not the only forum in which you voice your displeasure for the vast land south of your border. Have you ever stopped and thought how much you are allowing America to direct your thinking? That's power.
There is no need to defend America to you or any of the other anti-Americans in this forum. Firstly because no one is going to change your mind, and secondly because there is no reason to try. America doesn't have to care what you think about it, and it is this that galls you so much. You and like-minded individuals are desperate to paint a picture of America suffering because it doesn't care what pissants like you think about it. I know it's tough not to have any say what-so-ever over the course followed by the most powerful nation on earth, but that's life. If you want your voice heard in America, join the hundreds of thousands of other Canadians (my brother-in-law included) who have moved here and become American citizens.Now I'll get off of my soapbox
