1
   

You mean I'm not the only one????

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 10:25 am
Hmm, I think so. And I'm really glad to have found someone, who shares this opinion.
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 10:52 am
pachelbel wrote:
Funny that the bottom line appears to be the almighty dollar, as usual, that is causing the most concern, and I quote from the article from Reuters:


"American companies should care about America's standing in the world, first of all, because sooner or later anti-Americanism is bad for business," BDA President Keith Reinhard said at the Washington meeting. "Corporate America needs a world that welcomes and values American brands. Unfortunately, this is becoming less and less true."
That holds true even for the United States as a travel destination. "A direct consequence of the decline of America's reputation in the world," according to Reinhard,
[/color]


you got a problem with that? if a profit motive results in a better US foreign policy, i'd be delighted. it's not as though the present policy was designed to wreck american business--although it may favor a few sectors, such as oil interests & defense contractors, over the majority. it's Clinton, who i presume was more popular abroad than Bush, who's associated with the remark, "it's the economy, stupid."
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 03:18 pm
yitwail wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Funny that the bottom line appears to be the almighty dollar, as usual, that is causing the most concern, and I quote from the article from Reuters:


"American companies should care about America's standing in the world, first of all, because sooner or later anti-Americanism is bad for business," BDA President Keith Reinhard said at the Washington meeting. "Corporate America needs a world that welcomes and values American brands. Unfortunately, this is becoming less and less true."
That holds true even for the United States as a travel destination. "A direct consequence of the decline of America's reputation in the world," according to Reinhard,
[/color]


you got a problem with that? if a profit motive results in a better US foreign policy, i'd be delighted. it's not as though the present policy was designed to wreck american business--although it may favor a few sectors, such as oil interests & defense contractors, over the majority. it's Clinton, who i presume was more popular abroad than Bush, who's associated with the remark, "it's the economy, stupid."



I find it pathetically amusing that the US sees most things in terms of dollars. Perhaps a major reason for the decline in US tourism is the low opinion that much of the world has about the US; its involvement with Iraq, its threats to Iran and N. Korea & its policy of no interference when a terrorist state such as Israel gets away, literally, with murder - and nothing is done. If any other country was doing what Israel is doing there would be at least sanctions.

I seriously doubt that the hand-shaking BS will make the world think better of you, as you sit and watch Israel murder people. Of course, they are 'the chosen people' -anything they do is directed by God. Or is it?
Hitler thought he was directed by God too. Ditto Bush.

US involvement with Afganistan doesn't have anything to do with the opium trade, of course.

Iraqi oil doesn't interest the US, either. They're only interested in spreading democracy. How altruistic of them.

Lebanon's Hezbollah and Sierra Leone's black market diamonds don't, of course, influence the US either Cool

Criminal businesses flourish under the cover of conflict. Believing that the US is involved in spreading democracy and peace is pure BS.
They are, and have always been, furthering their own selfish interests. Too bad it doesn't benefit the general populace. The gap between rich and poor is spreading.

Americans need to look at themselves realistically. How you see yourselves is not how the world sees you. But you wouldn't know that, would you, since you only seek news sources which solidify your narrow opinion.

You have become what you fought against in the Revolutionary War: imperialists.

If you want to be isolationists then do so. You can't be imperialists and isolationists at the same time.

But hey, we all know war is profitable. For some.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 03:26 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
"is that more people around the world are consciously and purposely saying 'I don't want to visit America.'"


Now if we could just get them to stop immigrating.


Are you completely unaware that North America is peopled by immigrants? Where did your ancestors come from? Unless you're Native American, Tico, you're an immigrant too. Get a clue. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 04:22 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
"is that more people around the world are consciously and purposely saying 'I don't want to visit America.'"


Now if we could just get them to stop immigrating.


Are you completely unaware that North America is peopled by immigrants? Where did your ancestors come from? Unless you're Native American, Tico, you're an immigrant too. Get a clue. Rolling Eyes


Laughing The point being, we still have a lot of immigrants to this country -- both legal and illegal -- which is something your article failed to mention.

I've no problems with legal immigration. But don't let that fact stop you from getting your anti-American head all worked up about it.
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 06:21 pm
pachelbel wrote:
I find it pathetically amusing that the US sees most things in terms of dollars.


so tell me, which developed countries are not preoccupied with economic issues?
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 10:44 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
"is that more people around the world are consciously and purposely saying 'I don't want to visit America.'"


Now if we could just get them to stop immigrating.


Are you completely unaware that North America is peopled by immigrants? Where did your ancestors come from? Unless you're Native American, Tico, you're an immigrant too. Get a clue. Rolling Eyes


Laughing The point being, we still have a lot of immigrants to this country -- both legal and illegal -- which is something your article failed to mention.

I've no problems with legal immigration. But don't let that fact stop you from getting your anti-American head all worked up about it.



The article, Tico, was not about immigration. It was about people not wanting to visit America as tourists.

Wrap your head around that. Laughing
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 10:45 pm
yitwail wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
I find it pathetically amusing that the US sees most things in terms of dollars.


so tell me, which developed countries are not preoccupied with economic issues?


Over the welfare of the people of that developed country?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 11:00 pm
I suspect that any drop in international tourism rates in America has more to do with the increased security measures since 9/11 than anything else. One needn't care for American foreign policy to enjoy New York City, Yellowstone National Park, or The Grand Canyon.

If however you consider tourism rates to be such a reliable indicator of world regard, think about this. The US, as lately as 2004, was the the 3rd most popular destination in the world (preceded by #1 France, and #2 Spain) while Canada was #11. (But then we all realize that Canada could be #1 if her people just cared more about money.)

Considering that the Germans and the Brits are #1 and #3 in terms of spending on international travel, it's not really surprising that France and Spain top the US as travel destinations. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier for a German or British tourist to visit France or Spain than the US.

In any case, Spain and France need the tourism dollars more than us, so I won't begrudge them their higher spots on the list.
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 11:16 pm
pachelbel wrote:
yitwail wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
I find it pathetically amusing that the US sees most things in terms of dollars.


so tell me, which developed countries are not preoccupied with economic issues?


Over the welfare of the people of that developed country?


pachelbel, if by welfare you mean quality of life, then welfare is most definitely an economic issue. for instance, two of the biggest government programs in the US are social security & medicare. maybe it was misleading to have included that "it's the economy, stupid!" qoute earlier--i'm talking about issues in a broader sense, than merely stock market levels, employment, inflation, interest rates, and so on. whether it's health care, telecommunication, housing, transportation, or disaster relief, when the government decides how much to spend, in which area, and on which programs, there's necessarily an economic dimension to the decision.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 11:26 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I suspect that any drop in international tourism rates in America has more to do with the increased security measures since 9/11 than anything else. One needn't care for American foreign policy to enjoy New York City, Yellowstone National Park, or The Grand Canyon.

If however you consider tourism rates to be such a reliable indicator of world regard, think about this. The US, as lately as 2004, was the the 3rd most popular destination in the world (preceded by #1 France, and #2 Spain) while Canada was #11. (But then we all realize that Canada could be #1 if her people just cared more about money.)

Considering that the Germans and the Brits are #1 and #3 in terms of spending on international travel, it's not really surprising that France and Spain top the US as travel destinations. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier for a German or British tourist to visit France or Spain than the US.

In any case, Spain and France need the tourism dollars more than us, so I won't begrudge them their higher spots on the list.



Published on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 by Reuters

Anti-Americanism Prompts Push For "Citizen Diplomacy"

by Bernd Debusmann

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With anti-American sentiment at unprecedented levels around the world, Americans worried about their country's low standing are pushing a grassroots campaign to change foreign perceptions of the United States "one handshake at a time."

The idea is to turn millions of Americans into "citizen diplomats" who use personal meetings with foreigners to counter the ugly image of the United States shown in a series of international public opinion polls. They show widespread negative attitudes not only toward U.S. policies but also toward the American people and, increasingly, even American products.
Cool
I do not think the so-called security measures are causing the drop in interest in travel in the US. Neither does the guy who wrote the above article; you can read the full article at the beginning of this thread. I think it's the world's way of telling America they are pissed off. Security measures are nothing new in most parts of the planet. While travelling Europe 10 years ago I encountered the same security measures then at airports that people are encountering now in America.

France and Spain are historically interesting. What has America got to offer, but endless strip malls with franchise stores and cheap food?

If you want quantity, go to America.
If you want quality, go to Canada or Europe. We have enough Americans visiting our country, thank you. Canada tends to get more visitors from Europe and Asia who are apparently seeking the real wilderness experience. As for Canucks, well, we like to visit Cuba. No Americans there........ Laughing
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 07:41 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I suspect that any drop in international tourism rates in America has more to do with the increased security measures since 9/11 than anything else. One needn't care for American foreign policy to enjoy New York City, Yellowstone National Park, or The Grand Canyon.


My opinion is that Americanisms are already exported world wide. Many people dont need to go to the country to immerse its culture. Just turn on the television or go to a shopping center.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 01:17 pm
dadpad wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I suspect that any drop in international tourism rates in America has more to do with the increased security measures since 9/11 than anything else. One needn't care for American foreign policy to enjoy New York City, Yellowstone National Park, or The Grand Canyon.


My opinion is that Americanisms are already exported world wide. Many people dont need to go to the country to immerse its culture. Just turn on the television or go to a shopping center.



Yeah, you're right on. American 'pop culture' is ubiquitous. Unfortunately for the planet. Just my opinion......
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 07:47 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
"is that more people around the world are consciously and purposely saying 'I don't want to visit America.'"


Now if we could just get them to stop immigrating.


Are you completely unaware that North America is peopled by immigrants? Where did your ancestors come from? Unless you're Native American, Tico, you're an immigrant too. Get a clue. Rolling Eyes


Laughing The point being, we still have a lot of immigrants to this country -- both legal and illegal -- which is something your article failed to mention.

I've no problems with legal immigration. But don't let that fact stop you from getting your anti-American head all worked up about it.



The article, Tico, was not about immigration. It was about people not wanting to visit America as tourists.

Wrap your head around that. Laughing


Yes, I know .... they don't want to visit, they want to live here. Laughing

And I know that's eating you up inside. :wink:
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:17 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
"is that more people around the world are consciously and purposely saying 'I don't want to visit America.'"


Now if we could just get them to stop immigrating.


Are you completely unaware that North America is peopled by immigrants? Where did your ancestors come from? Unless you're Native American, Tico, you're an immigrant too. Get a clue. Rolling Eyes


Laughing The point being, we still have a lot of immigrants to this country -- both legal and illegal -- which is something your article failed to mention.

I've no problems with legal immigration. But don't let that fact stop you from getting your anti-American head all worked up about it.



The article, Tico, was not about immigration. It was about people not wanting to visit America as tourists.

Wrap your head around that. Laughing


Yes, I know .... they don't want to visit, they want to live here. Laughing

And I know that's eating you up inside. :wink:



It is? Sorry, not eating me up at all, Tico. Must be pissing you off, though. You sound very intolerant of 'immigrants' even though your ancestors qualify.

Who wants to live in wondrous America? The Hispanics who were kicked out? I hope they get Texas, California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Southern Colorado and Utah back. They'd just be reclaiming their land that was conquered. Just like the JEWS, eh?

Who else is beating down the doors to live in America? Rolling Eyes :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:26 pm
pachelbel wrote:
It is? Sorry, not eating me up at all, Tico.


Sure it is. The fact that anybody wants to come and live in this country and pursue the "American Dream," pisses you off.

Quote:
Must be pissing you off, though. You sound very intolerant of 'immigrants' even though your ancestors qualify.


Yes, my ancestors and many of my relatives are immigrants, but my intolerance is reserved for illegal immigrants.

I don't care much for drug dealers and bank robbers either, if you're keeping score at home.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:45 pm
dadpad wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I suspect that any drop in international tourism rates in America has more to do with the increased security measures since 9/11 than anything else. One needn't care for American foreign policy to enjoy New York City, Yellowstone National Park, or The Grand Canyon.


My opinion is that Americanisms are already exported world wide. Many people dont need to go to the country to immerse its culture. Just turn on the television or go to a shopping center.


What is an "Americanism?"

While it's true that American television programs and American products are a reflections of American culture, to suggest that they represent that culture in its entirety is silly.

Out of curiosity though, what are the centrals themes of American culture than you believe run through all of its television programs and all of its products?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:54 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Who wants to live in wondrous America? The Hispanics who were kicked out? [..]

Who else is beating down the doors to live in America? Rolling Eyes :wink:

Top Ten of countries of origin of the foreign-born US population, 2004: see here

Eg:

Mexico 9,600,000
China 1,900,000
Phillipines 1,700,000
India 1,600,000
Vietnam 1,200,000
Cuba 1,100,000
El Salvador 1,100,000

Total: 40,500,000
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 09:24 pm
nimh wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Who wants to live in wondrous America? The Hispanics who were kicked out? [..]

Who else is beating down the doors to live in America? Rolling Eyes :wink:

Top Ten of countries of origin of the foreign-born US population, 2004:


A minor, and largely insignificant, correction: Those are the numbers for 2010.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 09:52 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
It is? Sorry, not eating me up at all, Tico.


Sure it is. The fact that anybody wants to come and live in this country and pursue the "American Dream," pisses you off.

I live in Canada - why should I care if they choose America? America is far easier to get into. You should read what an immigrant has to do to get into Canada. Usually they don't have enough money to qualify, or enough education.

As for the American Dream, you want to go there? We all know how many people are pursuing this 'dream' - the ones who work at Walmart and similar places who will never make quite enough to afford a home. I know plenty of white collar workers who are stretched to the limit, trying to afford their mortgage, college for the kids, car payments, etc. How many couples do you know, where both have to work to make ends meet? Not to mention the high cost of health care in the US. And gas to get to work. Can anyone afford to retire in the US? How much are you paying for health care? The American Dream, my friend, is a myth, as so many immigrants discover.

It would be good to remember that those illegal immigrants are the ones cleaning the toilets in the hotels you stay in, as well as doing all the scut work that Americans find so demeaning.

Quote:
Must be pissing you off, though. You sound very intolerant of 'immigrants' even though your ancestors qualify.


Yes, my ancestors and many of my relatives are immigrants, but my intolerance is reserved for illegal immigrants.

I don't care much for drug dealers and bank robbers either, if you're keeping score at home.


The drugs are coming from south of the border. Bank robbers? You don't have those in America?? Per capita I think America has more of each.
0 Replies
 
 

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