Medical Doctor vs. Physicians' Assistant

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I am a physician assistant and find this discussion quite interesting. I will tell you I am in the Air Force and received all my training through the military - which is also one of the highest ranked training programs in the US. PAs are not doctors, but they are trained in the same medical model as doctors, with a full array of classes including pharmacology, pathology, microbiology, GI, cardiology, OB/GYN, etc. The programs range from bachelor's to master's (mine was a masters) and are not 'a few weeks long.' Mine was 100 credit hours after fulfilling all prerequisites - A&P, chemistry, biology, math, english, etc. - for the bachelors, then a year of residency training going through all the specialties for experience and hands-on training for my masters. PAs are very knowledgeable, and I have yet to meet one with a degree in 'landscaping' as was stated in an earlier post. Think about it - there are good and bad in every single profession, doctors included, but would someone really be hired if they were not an asset? I can tell you I have a full empanelment of 2500 patients (more at times) who request me specifically, I am not the most knowledgeable but I am good at my job and know my limits, I treat everything from a stuffy nose to diabetes, hypertension, and more. I also treat patients with chronic pain and prescribe narcotics when necessary, as well as any other medication, though this is through the military again and each state is different in their rules. There are doctors who find PAs an absolute asset and would not be able to run their practices without them, and there are those who stick with only physicians, to each their own. But do not bash a profession just because you don't know the background on it, most people who become PAs have a very long medical background as paramedics, medical technicians, and even nurses, are very well educated and made a personal choice for their own reasons not to pursue an MD. PAs, as also stated above, tend to spend more time and listen more to their patients than many doctors and take the time to treat the issues instead of just the assumed problem.

This was a very old post for sure. That being said, I was hoping to clear some things up. A physician's assistant requires a graduate degree, usually a Master's of Medical Science, which takes an average of 2 years to complete. Because an MMSc degree is a graduate degree, this means that they had to achieve an undergraduate degree prior to graduate school. This brings the total education to around 6 years. PA school is competitive, and in some aspects it can be more competitive than medical school. Most students who apply to PA school complete a regular degree on the pre-med track (pre-med is not a major, merely an academic focus) and complete the same prerequisite courses as medical school hopefuls. Upon graduation, PAs are able to practice a broad spectrum of medicine. In some cases, such as rural areas, a PA may actually be the sole medical provider in the area. A PA is allowed to prescribe medications, do procedures, give exams, and a number of other things. In some states, the amount of procedures they're allowed to perform and the number of medications they're allowed to prescribe are only limited by the rules of the institution that they're currently employed by. In all, PAs are well qualified and are a great, cost effective alternative to traditional MDs or DOs. Don't get PAs confused with office workers, they would take offense to being called "secretaries" or just "assistants".

M. Lowder MD

PA's go to graduate school for 2+ years and learn almost an entire medical school work load in a third of the time and can do almost anything a doctor can... surgery, write prescriptions, diagnose illnesses and treat patients under the supervision of a doctor... to compare them to a receptionist is ignorant and offensive.

What kind of surgery? Prescriptions for what?

Thats a horrible way to put it. A PA is not a doctor, but the same principles in our education and much of the same methods are used to teach PAs and MDs alike. However, MD's have A LOT more formal training then PAs which justifies the respect that they deserve. I am not sure I have ever met a PA who demands the same respect as an MD based on those reasons, but I do think that PAs should be respected because they work their butts off just the same as doc's, nurses, etc. It's a team effort and although the MDs are at the top, a lot of doctors really benefit from the presence of a mid-level and would be worse off without them.

I am applying to Physician Assistant programs this summer. Currently, there are 156 PA programs in the United States. About 95% of them are graduate programs. They are very competitive to get into. Many of the graduate programs gets approximately 1000 applicants but have less than 100 seats. Master programs requires a bachelors degree and courses in anatomy and physiology, microbiology, and chemistry.

Nearly all schools require that applicants have some patient care experience to get in but this varies. Schools can require anywhere from 500-5000 patient contact hours.

After bachelors degree, most PAs completed a full-time Masters program that can take anywhere from 24-36 months long. The program is similar to medical school but condensed in half. PA students focus on medical relevant information and focus less on science that medical doctor students have to complete in addition to medical relevant classes. Last half of program is at minimum 12 months in which the PA students have clinical rotations in all different fields of medicine (internal medicine, surgery, family medicine...)

PAs can practice medicine upon graduating from PA school and passing board exams. Where has physicians have to do a 3-8 year residency program after graduating medical school.

Who ever compared PA to receptionist and who ever said nursing school is harder than PA school doesn't know what they are talking about. PA school is hard.

Nearly all new PAs went to school for 6+ years after high school.
PAs pay malpractice but at lower rate than physician because they work under physician.
PAs must work under a physician.
Insurance companies will cover medical visit even if you seen a PA but the insurance company will need to know the name of the physician that the PA works under.

My wife was a nurse for 28 years and a Certified Diabetic Educator for 17. She hated dealing with "MOST" PA's as they thought they were MD's!!! She always said they had less training than a nurse but could write scripts. A PA with his god complex let my wife die in the ER 1 1/2 years ago instead of calling for qualified help. Get rid of them all, except the ones that know their limitations!!!

The basic difference is that PA are the one who take less time to licensing and practicing by investing less money for school whereas MD are the one having more knowledge and education and have ability to practice worldwide.

I am a certified medical assistant and I would rather work with a PA than an MD. The PA is more caring and has the time to talk with the patients for a more thorough examination than an MD does. I also want to say that a PA and NP are there for preventative medicine. MDs tend to follow patients with more serious issues. The major difference is the amount of education that they go through. However, there are numerous PA's that follow patients with diabetic and cardiac issues. It all depends on the MD that is overseeing that PA.

PAs are trained just like doctors. To even get into PA school, you need almost the exact same prerequisites as medical school, just without the physics usually. You also need a ton of paid direct patient care hours, usually around 1000, something that most medical school do not require. To get in you also need a BA. They do have malpractice insurance. PAs can prescribe medicine and see patients on their own, how many nurses can do that? They have to do a year of rotations, much like residences that doctors do. I am a third year neuroscience major currently and almost changed my mind from PA to MD or DO because the schools are easier to get into. The person that said her friend was in a program for a few weeks is crazy. All real PA programs are at least two full years, with just a few weeks off the entire year. It is one of the best careers in the nation currently. Most people I've spoken to have said that their PA gives them better care, because they actually have time to sit and talk with the patient and really figure out what is wrong with them. I would much rather see a PA. A lot of PAs work at an office by themselves, with the doctor coming in once a month or so and signing off on everything the PA did. Everyone who commented on this post needs to realize that it is a very serious profession and that PAs need to be treated with respect. PAs normally take jobs that doctors don't want, in rural or urban places. We should be thankful that we have people, that are just as capable of becoming doctors, who would rather get paid less to do pretty much the same job. With the way the country is going right now, we need PAs more than ever.

This summer I was volunteering at a youth summer camp when I fell and lodged a piece of wood in my hand. The camp nurse struggled to remove it for a couple hours, before driving me to the ER. I saw a doctor there who, after a few minutes of poking around at my hand, claimed he removed the stick. I believed him. A week and a half later, my hand was still swollen and red. I went to a different urgent care, where a second doctor looked at my hand. He also poked around at it, at one point having a pair of forceps half an inch under my skin with no pain medication. He then claimed he got everything out and sent me home. The very next day I was at a friends house who happened to be a PA. He took one look at my hand and told me that there was still something in there. He fortunately had the proper equipment at his house and spent about an hour working on my hand. When he was done, I was sitting there holding a stick over a 1/2 inch long! Plus other smaller pieces of wood! He told me if the other doctors had continued to leave this in my hand, it would have gotten even more infected and I could have eventually lost my hand to infection. Now I'm sure a doctor would not have let it go that far, but how on Earth did TWO DOCTORS let me go home with a piece of wood that long in my hand? It had been there 11 days by the time he finally got it out.

Basically, anyone can make mistakes. I am not saying that PAs are better than doctors, they are just different. Everyone on this board needs to research a little bit more about PAs and realize how ignorant you all sound.

I have encountered many individuals in Utah, that are completely uneducated in this department. After basic college, a PA goes to a PA school for 2 years; not to medical school (a pretty extreme short-cut, wouldn't you say?). Certainly a far cry from 8-10 years of medical school, plus another 3 years for a speciality (as is the case with doctors). I have heard a few of them refer to themselves as 'doctors', and it's very outrageous. Additionally, a PA is completely supervised/corrected by an MD. They can be an asset to an MD as far as filling in during off hours. But you are begging for a misdiagnosis if you are seeing a PA as your primary care physician; this is especially troubling if you are bringing your child to one on a regular basis. Unfortunately, many MDs use PAs to see their patients, so they can take more time off but still make the same money; while the patients receive inferior care. There is absolutely no comparison between an MD and a PA. If you find yourself seeing one often when you make an appointment with your doctor, then you have an MD that is more concerned about $$ than about the care their patients receive. Always ask who you are going to see when making an appointment.

There are so many misconceptions about Physician Assistants. PAs have to obtain a bachelors degree along with all of the pre-med per-requisites along with a few extra. Most if not all of the current running PA programs take the exact same courses that MD do. PA school is like a fast paced version of medical school only lacking those scholarly year and the students already having 1+ years of direct patient care experience. Many PAs have been in the health care field for many years. They do have the training to know a lot of what doctors know and throughout their career they have to remain educated and updated on the medical world. There are even residency programs out there that give PAs that extra intensive experience and knowledge. You guys look down on PAs, but come every July there are medical student graduates starting their internships. If you think they are top-notch physicians then you are wrong. Sure they have plenty of knowledge and and a little bit of clinical experience, but there is something interesting you might want to discover. There are way more deaths/accidents in the US as the result of an intern fresh out of medical school than there are as the result of a physician assistant. That M.D. doesn't automatically make a person flawless and the best medical provider. I'm sure RN, NP, and PA who have been working in their area for many years/decades could spot something wrong with a patient much faster than some intern that just took their board exam. Of course that would depend on the individuals and how dedicated they are, but you can't judge a book by it's cover, or in this case title

PA aren't much of inferior care. You have medical professionals that have years behind them prior to PA training. In their experiences many of them have experienced doing the basic stuff medical students learn and that RN/NP/Paramedics already have knowledge of. Often they were RN/NP/Paramedics. I sure hope you don't think their care is useless, because they do a lot of important work that keep a patient alive for a physician to seek treatment. Any experience with a PA misdiagnosis is the same type of error you could expect with a MD. PAs are by no means doctors, but with years of experience and growth in knowledge many of them are around the equivalency of doctors. They also are supervised by physicians, but not necessarily in a way where they are hovering over them. A patient could expect to seem a few different health care professionals within the day and sometimes the best can miss things while a RN could spot it. The great thing about PAs are that they are able to spend more time with patients much like RN. Properly diagnosis doesn't come from spending 5 minutes with a patient and the rest working in an office. That's why PAs/RN/NP are essential assets in hospitals. They have the chance to learn about the patients and catch things a doctor could easily miss. When it comes down to it PAs aren't as involved because of money. Many doctors on the other hand become doctors because of the money. If PAs cared about the money then they would be going the MD route. I'm not saying all Physicians/Surgeons are money hungry, but you're certainly going to find more PAs that are in it for helping patients. So who do you want your sick child to see? Someone that doesn't get paid as much as a doctor and has many years of patient care experience under their belt or new intern that's just focused about the luxury they can expect after they get done with their residency and paid off all their loans?

How much are you willing to bet that PA was a nurse years before becoming a PA. Your wife was probably envious because most people think PAs are doctors first hand and think nurses are just their to wipe their butts. I seriously mean no disrespect to the Nursing field. I find them a great asset, but PA training is NOT less than a nurse. PA requires a bachelors degree and way more science courses to get into the PA program. You can become a nurse in 2-3 years after high school going the ADN route or in just 4 years if you go the BSN route. The first two years are general requirements that the university/college ask for along general bio, general chem, and organic chemistry. Then the last two are focused on nursing. Then for an ADN you take pre-reqs(anatomy&phy, medical terminology) for the nursing program along with the Associates Degree requirement general courses, and the nursing courses/clinicals.
Now let's explore PA's expected route: Bachelors degree: general bio, general chem, organ chem, psychology, (some want calc), microbio, anatomy & physiology, other adv bio (cell bio, biochem, etc.) Masters: First year didactic with continuation of basic sciences and more medical sciences (this going from fall straight to the next fall including the summer) then the final year is spent doing clinical rotation in different specialties. During the didactic year students typically have several exams every(or every other) week and have A LOT of advanced level reading leaving them with no social life. Physician Assistants are by no means Medical Assistants and they do not just do basic courses. Many people don't even make it into PA because they fail to meet the direct patient care experience and/or minimum grade requirements/courses. This is no cake walk program. Anyone that is honestly not efficient as doing many of the clinical duties a physician has probably did bought their way into the program, just like some rich people do in just about every field. It's so sad that you blame your wife's death on an entire field because she spent her life hating the field and now you perpetuate pointless ignorance and hate.

You're letting the name confuse you. What you're talking about is called medical assistant now. They typically go through a one year diploma training at a community/technical college.
This board discusses Physician Assistant. It is not linked to medical assistants or medical secretary. Physician Assistants are trained on the medical model not the nursing model. So they are in no way nurses. A nurse that has additional training and even greater specialty is a Nurse Practitioner.

You are thinking of MA. Not PA.

Most PAs have master's degrees, and the schooling is an EXACT mirror of years 2 and 3 of medical school. The pre- reqs are very close to the same more medical school.

Med students and PA students do not have to have "pre-med degrees" Both accept "non-traditional" students. They both do require things like chemistry, organic chemistry, biology, higher level math, as pre reqs.

Also, You are thinking of a medical assistant which is a few weeks long. PA's (Physician assistant, NOT physican's assistant) have masters degrees and are licensed to prescribe medicine, treat disease, and perform surgery.

This thread is full misinformation. You really shouldn't comment on things you don't know or understand.

From the AAPA:

What is a physician assistant?

A physician assistant (PA) is a medical professional who works as part of a team with a doctor. A PA is a graduate of an accredited PA educational program who is nationally certified and state-licensed to practice medicine with the supervision of a physician.

What can PAs do?
PAs perform physical examinations, diagnose and treat illnesses, order and interpret lab tests, perform procedures, assist in surgery, provide patient education and counseling and make rounds in hospitals and nursing homes. All 50 states and the District of Columbia allow PAs to practice and prescribe medications.

How are PAs educated and trained?
The PA educational program is modeled on the medical school curriculum, a combination of classroom and clinical instruction. The PA course of study is rigorous and intense. The average length of a PA education program is 27 months.
Admission to PA school is highly competitive. Applicants to PA programs must complete at least two years of college courses in basic science and behavioral science as prerequisites to PA school, analogous to premedical studies required of medical students. The majority of PA programs have the following prerequisites: chemistry, physiology, anatomy, microbiology and biology. Additionally, most PA programs require or prefer that applicants have prior healthcare experience.
PA education includes instruction in core sciences: anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pharmacology, physical diagnosis, pathophysiology, microbiology, clinical laboratory science, behavioral science and medical ethics.
PAs also complete more than 2,000 hours of clinical rotations, with an emphasis on primary care in ambulatory clinics, physician offices and acute or long-term care facilities. Rotations include family medicine, internal medicine, obstetrics and gynecology, pediatrics, general surgery, emergency medicine and psychiatry.
Practicing PAs participate in lifelong learning. In order to maintain national certification, a PA must complete 100 hours of continuing medical education every two years.
There are currently 181 accredited PA programs in the United States. The vast majority award master’s degrees. PA education programs are represented by the Physician Assistant Education Association and accredited through the Accreditation Review Commission on Education for the Physician Assistant (ARC-PA).

How do doctors and PAs work together? If there’s a PA in my practice group, can I request to be seen by the PA?
By design, physicians and PAs work together as a team, and all PAs practice medicine with physician supervision. Supervision does not mean, though, that a supervising physician must always be present with the PA or direct every aspect of PA-provided care.
PAs are trained and educated similarly to physicians, and therefore share similar diagnostic and therapeutic reasoning. Physician-PA practice can be described as delegated autonomy. Physicians delegate duties to PAs, and within those range of duties, PAs use autonomous decision-making for patient care. This team model is an efficient way to provide high-quality medical care. In rural areas, the PA may be the only healthcare provider on-site, collaborating with a physician elsewhere through telecommunication.
If there is a PA in your group practice, you can certainly request to be seen by him or her. PAs deliver high-quality care, and research shows that patients are just as satisfied with PA-provided care as they are with physician care.