15
   

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jan, 2011 09:55 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Quote:
Can Christianity Survive in the Middle East?

A series of deadly assaults and ominous threats—most dramatically the New Year's church massacre in Alexandria, Egypt, and a threat from al-Qaida in Iraq to "open the doors of destruction and rivers of blood" upon Christians—have raised fears that Christianity may not survive in the region of its birth.


Now there's an idea, since Palestine is the region of Christianity's birth, the state of Israel should grant the right of return to all Christians.


The right of return is not really based on one's religion. It is based on one's ethnicity. Adherents to Judaism, in effect, usually wear two hats, an ethnic hat, and a religious hat. In my own opinion, both hats are sort of faded for many Jews.

Since Cristobal Colon (aka, Christopher Columbus) may have had a Spanish Jewish father, by some accounts, can an argument be made that all Jews should have a right of return to the U.S.A.?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 01:42 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Since Cristobal Colon (aka, Christopher Columbus) may have had a Spanish Jewish father, by some accounts, can an argument be made that all Jews should have a right of return to the U.S.A.?


He wasn't a citizen of the USA, I think.

So, that would be either Genua (Italy) or Spain, where Jews should have a right to return.

InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 05:06 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

The right of return is not really based on one's religion. It is based on one's ethnicity. Adherents to Judaism, in effect, usually wear two hats, an ethnic hat, and a religious hat. In my own opinion, both hats are sort of faded for many Jews.

Since Cristobal Colon (aka, Christopher Columbus) may have had a Spanish Jewish father, by some accounts, can an argument be made that all Jews should have a right of return to the U.S.A.?


So, Judaism is an ethnicity after all--when it's convenient to a particular argument of yours, that is. Got it.

Right of return or not, the US could use an influx of immigrants to help jumpstart the stagnant economy by increasing the population. Jews would be gladly welcome, and their existential wellbeing would be guaranteed.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 10:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Since Cristobal Colon (aka, Christopher Columbus) may have had a Spanish Jewish father, by some accounts, can an argument be made that all Jews should have a right of return to the U.S.A.?


He wasn't a citizen of the USA, I think.

So, that would be either Genua (Italy) or Spain, where Jews should have a right to return.




I was reading on a website, that talked about DNA world-wide analysis, that 20% of Spaniards have a Jewish ancestor from the last 500 years (post Inquisition). Go figure.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 11:04 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Foofie wrote:

The right of return is not really based on one's religion. It is based on one's ethnicity. Adherents to Judaism, in effect, usually wear two hats, an ethnic hat, and a religious hat. In my own opinion, both hats are sort of faded for many Jews.

Since Cristobal Colon (aka, Christopher Columbus) may have had a Spanish Jewish father, by some accounts, can an argument be made that all Jews should have a right of return to the U.S.A.?


So, Judaism is an ethnicity after all--when it's convenient to a particular argument of yours, that is. Got it.



No different than American Italian Catholics, or American Irish Catholics that say they are Italian or Irish, regardles of how many generations the family is in the U.S. But, I guess when Jews claim an ethnicity it can be considered a sign of non-assimilation which may be suspect of some sort of clannishness or who knows what?

However, the ethnicity has changed from the 19th century. Jews in the 19th century from Czarist Russia were referred to as Oriental Jews (aka, Asiatic). Today, these same Jews would be from "Eastern Europe." Is it not cute how identities change over time. Based on the image of intelligent Asians, I think I would rather be Asiatic. Plus, based on the Holocaust being only less than 70 years ago, I am not comfortable thinking of myself as someone of European descent, even though that is how I look. In other words, I do not want to identify with a continent where many were so comfortable with the Nazis efforts at extermination.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 11:54 pm
@Foofie,
But Columbus was born in Genua, quite a few miles away from Spain.

Look it up.
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 10:51 am
@Foofie,

Quote:
I do not want to identify with a continent where many were so comfortable with the Nazis efforts at extermination.


What fresh crazy nonsense is this?

And don't forget, we couldn't get the Americans to join in until 1941.
Maybe you "don't want to identify" with your own countrymen.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 05:31 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
And don't forget, we couldn't get the Americans to join in until 1941.
Maybe you "don't want to identify" with your own countrymen.

We had been burned by the folly of joining you in 1917 in an idiotic war over distorted internal European ambitions and competing quests for empire. The world is still acting our the consequenses of this murderous folly from socialist and facist revolution to the problem of Israel/Palestine, the worldwide Islamist uprising and the degeneration of post colinial states in Africa. Your leaders didn't bother to tell us of the secret deals they had already cut with France and Russia over the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire or the payoffs you arranges in redrawing the map of Europe at Paris in 1919.

We had no reason to trust you in 1939. Many here were properly skeptical of your intent to live up to your treaty assurances to Czechoslovakia, Poland and the baltic States and Munich confirmed their skepticism. We were entirely right to be skeptical.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 11:28 am
The Hamas view is that there should be the destruction of all Jews, Christians, and communists. Their love of humanity is an inspiration for all of us.

http://www.raymondcook.net/blog/index.php/2011/01/23/hamas-jews-and-christians-should-be-killed/
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 02:11 pm
@georgeob1,

Quote:
We had been burned by the folly of joining you in 1917 in an idiotic war over distorted internal European ambitions and competing quests for empire.


Politics, eh?

You are probably aware that I was not inviting a spotlight to be turned on British political thought of 1917. We did not earn the soubriquet "Perfidious Albion" for nothing. But that's mainly the English, of course. The English who have always got the Scots to do their dirty work for them, and when numbers were insufficient, then the Americans.

I would venture the modest opinion that the situation in 1939 was somewhat different from that in 1914.
Anyway, as far as imperial ambition, the Americans made sure that the British Empire was well and truly unpicked by 1945.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 02:18 pm
@georgeob1,
You expectorate about trust, Gob. You really ought not to be pointing fingers at others. You, of all people.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 06:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

But Columbus was born in Genua, quite a few miles away from Spain.

Look it up.


Yes, he was born in Genoa, Italy; however, his parents spoke Italian with a Spanish accent. Legend has it that his family knew the Inquisition was coming, and they left Spain early on. Why? Legend, amongst some, was that his father was a Spanish Jew.

Anyway, Columbus (aka, Cristobal Colon) claimed the New World for the Spanish crown. There were many things about Columbus that could not be explained, like his not having a university education (Jews were not allowed in the universities). Or, supposedly, he put the Jewish calendar dates in the margins of his ships log. He was also supposed to have had an interpreter of Hebrew on board, because the land in India that he was seeking was supposed to be a place that Jews lived autonomously. There is also a theory that Spanish Jewish financiers financed the expedition, since it was supposed to find this land, so Spanish Jews could go there, in context of the Inquisition (the Spanish national treasury just paid for getting the Moors out of Granada; some doubt it could finance his three ships).

Regardless, Jews lived in Spain since 300 BC, before the Visigoths became the modern Spaniards, and were told they were not true Spaniards, since they were not Catholic. Sort of audacious in some peoples opinion. Just another reason Jews look at their history and believe Israel must continue to exist, since anti-Semitism has been shown to be an intractable condition of the Gentile world for a long time.

Notice that there is a miniscule Jewish community in Spain today. Interesting that Germany is making an effort to bring back a Jewish community, and Spain does not seem to care. Could that be telling that all Europeans are not the same, regardless of the concept of the EU?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 06:54 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
I do not want to identify with a continent where many were so comfortable with the Nazis efforts at extermination.


What fresh crazy nonsense is this?

And don't forget, we couldn't get the Americans to join in until 1941.
Maybe you "don't want to identify" with your own countrymen.


I am using "European" as a euphemism for "white." The politics of the U.S. before WWII is not what I am talking about. I am talking about my feeling that being Jewish makes me feel somewhat alienated from the sometimes seen white/European attitude of superiority to anyone that is not white/European. Eurocentricity in Europe is white superiority in the U.S. oftentimes, in my opinion. I would rather be Asiatic. What is incongruous is I look European, a dubious thanks to all sorts of mixing in the mist of time.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 01:25 am
Secret papers reveal slow death of Middle East peace process
• Massive new leak lifts lid on negotiations
• PLO offered up key settlements in East Jerusalem
• Concessions made on refugees and Holy sites

http://i54.tinypic.com/2hgefd0.jpg

Online report: Secret papers reveal slow death of Middle East peace process
McTag
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 01:40 pm
@Foofie,

Quote:
the sometimes seen white/European attitude of superiority to anyone that is not white/European.


That is often true, I'm sure.

But in the same way, Japanese people are reputed to think of themselves as superior. Jewish people too- intelligent, gifted, even "chosen". Arabic muslims? Certainly. Deutsch, ueber alles, we know that. The Irish, especially after a few Guinness? Second to none. I think every nation or ethnic group have a high opinion of themselves, and why not.

But the Scottish WASPs?
"Wha's like us?" -"Damn few, an' they're a' deid."
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 03:23 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
the sometimes seen white/European attitude of superiority to anyone that is not white/European.


That is often true, I'm sure.

But in the same way, Japanese people are reputed to think of themselves as superior. Jewish people too- intelligent, gifted, even "chosen". Arabic muslims? Certainly. Deutsch, ueber alles, we know that. The Irish, especially after a few Guinness? Second to none. I think every nation or ethnic group have a high opinion of themselves, and why not.

But the Scottish WASPs?
"Wha's like us?" -"Damn few, an' they're a' deid."


Sorry; Jews were only "chosen" to receive the Ten Commandments. Any other interpretation of "chosen" usually comes from a Gentile that might like to think "chosen" implies a superiority complex. Actually, Jews, I believe, often just think of themselves as average; however, they do know that the world's Gentile bellcurve has at least half the world's population on the left. Jews may just be closer to the average intelligence more often than some other groups. So, an individual Jew may not assume the Gentile he/she has just met is on the right side of the bellcurve.

Also, I am not sure that a high opinion of one's group is really not just an arrogance as part of the culture one comes from? I do believe that the British are superior to many other Europeans. If that is not correct, I would like it to be so, anyway. Tonight I get to watch two hours of that documentary, The Monarchy At Work. Love it.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 01:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Secret papers reveal slow death of Middle East peace process
• Massive new leak lifts lid on negotiations
• PLO offered up key settlements in East Jerusalem
• Concessions made on refugees and Holy sites
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession


I posted the same information on another thread, Walter.
No response there, either.

I am really surprised that there has been no reaction to these recent leaks.


Quote:
SENIOR Palestinian Authority officials are expected to face intense pressure to resign amid growing public anger over revelations that they were prepared to give away some of the Palestinians' most cherished claims in their desire to sign a peace agreement with Israel.

A cache of leaked documents chronicling the past decade of behind-the-scenes Middle East peace negotiations has shown the Palestinian leadership to be so eager for an agreement that it was prepared to allow Israel to keep almost all Jewish settlements in occupied East Jerusalem.


and from the Israeli side:

Quote:
...The documents contradict claims by successive Israeli leaders that they had ''no partner for peace'', instead showing in startling detail the extent to which Palestinian negotiators were prepared to bend to satisfy Israeli demands.


If the details of these Al Jazeera leaks are correct, the Palestinian negotiators were willing to forfeit so much, with a (very surprising!) total lack of response from the Israeli negotiators.

Which begs the question, how genuine are the Israeli negotiators in attempting to reach a peaceful resolution with the Palestinians to resolve the ongoing conflict?


http://www.theage.com.au/world/desperation-of-palestinian-leadership-exposed-by-leaks-20110124-1a2wa.html
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 01:22 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Video report:
Anger over Jerusalem leak claims
Source: ABC News (Australia)
Published: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:01 AEDT
Expires: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:01 AEDT

Claims that Palestinian authorities were willing to offer large parts of East Jerusalem to Israel as part of a peace deal are prompting unrest among Palestinians.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2011/01/25/3120863.htm
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 01:28 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Secret papers reveal slow death of Middle East peace process
• Massive new leak lifts lid on negotiations
• PLO offered up key settlements in East Jerusalem
• Concessions made on refugees and Holy sites

http://i54.tinypic.com/2hgefd0.jpg

Online report: Secret papers reveal slow death of Middle East peace process



Interesting. It's nice to see the Palestinians are finally willing to contemplate peace.

I hope it isn't too late. After decades of Palestinians doing nothing but murder Israeli children, few in Israel may even be listening anymore.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 01:30 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:
I posted the same information on another thread, Walter.
No response there, either.

I am really surprised that there has been no reaction to these recent leaks.


I only heard about them yesterday I think. Maybe it was the day before.

And I didn't pay any attention at first, because I'm so used to the Palestinians wanting to do nothing besides murder Israeli children.




Quote:
SENIOR Palestinian Authority officials are expected to face intense pressure to resign amid growing public anger over revelations that they were prepared to give away some of the Palestinians' most cherished claims in their desire to sign a peace agreement with Israel.

A cache of leaked documents chronicling the past decade of behind-the-scenes Middle East peace negotiations has shown the Palestinian leadership to be so eager for an agreement that it was prepared to allow Israel to keep almost all Jewish settlements in occupied East Jerusalem.


Figures that Palestinian willingness to make peace would outrage most Palestinians.





msolga wrote:
and from the Israeli side:

Quote:
...The documents contradict claims by successive Israeli leaders that they had ''no partner for peace'', instead showing in startling detail the extent to which Palestinian negotiators were prepared to bend to satisfy Israeli demands.


Nonsense. The fact that Palestinians start contemplating peace for the first time does not negate the fact that for so long all the Palestinians were interested in was murdering Israeli children.




msolga wrote:
If the details of these Al Jazeera leaks are correct, the Palestinian negotiators were willing to forfeit so much, with a (very surprising!) total lack of response from the Israeli negotiators.

Which begs the question, how genuine are the Israeli negotiators in attempting to reach a peaceful resolution with the Palestinians to resolve the ongoing conflict?


I don't see how "making a reasonable offer for the first time in history" means the Palestinians are forfeiting anything.

As for Israel, they have not been in serious negotiations since around 2000, when the Palestinians responded to the negotiations by murdering Israeli children until the negotiations collapsed.

If there are to be new negotiations, the first step will have to be to convince the Israeli voters that people are willing to make peace with them. Once they are convinced of that, Israeli voters will replace Netanyahu with someone willing to negotiate -- likely Ehud Barak -- and negotiations will begin.
 

Related Topics

Israel's Reality - Discussion by Miller
THE WAR IN GAZA - Discussion by Advocate
Israel's Shame - Discussion by BigEgo
Eye On Israel/Palestine - Discussion by IronLionZion
 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 10/21/2019 at 01:54:08