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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 03:58 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.

Who, exactly, are these rulers, fanatical no less, of Islam, again?
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 04:40 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Quote:
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.

Who, exactly, are these rulers, fanatical no less, of Islam, again?


The leaders of Iran, Hamas, al-Qaida, Taliban, et al.!
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 05:12 pm
Advocate wrote:
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.


Some al-Qaeda fanatic fatwah examples:

Osama bin Laden wrote:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996.

I say to you ... These youths [love] death as you love life.
…Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.

Osama bin Laden wrote:

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm
Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
… On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

Osama bin Laden wrote:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00035.html
Al-Qaida Statement Warning Muslims Against Associating With The Crusaders And Idols; Translation By JUS; Jun 09, 2004 from the Al-Qaida Organization of the Arab Gulf; 19 Rabbi Al-Akhir 1425
… No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.

… Everything related to them such as complexes, bases, means of transportation, especially Western and American Airlines, will be our main and direct targets in our forthcoming operations on our path of Jihad that we, with Allah's Power, will not turn away from.

0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 04:04 pm
@Advocate,
That's like saying that the US, the Republican Party, and the Branch Davidians rule Christianity. Both are equally ridiculous assertions.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 04:37 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

That's like saying that the US, the Republican Party, and the Branch Davidians rule Christianity. Both are equally ridiculous assertions.


Oh, mercy me! But you have to admit that the leaders of the Iran, Hamas, and the other organizations I mentioned are fanatics.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 07:20 am
Muslim leaders preach that Islam will succeed in achieving Allah's will to conquer the world. This gives one an idea of the chances the West will reach an accord with Islam.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4030.htm
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 06:55 pm
It seems the Obama Admin. is starting to grow a pair in confronting Israel by condemning them for it's announcement of a building project for Jews only in East Jerusalem--an area that the Palestinians and the international community would like to reserve for a future capitol of a Palestinian state--right at the time that the US vice president personally traveled to the region in an attempt to revitalize peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

Glenn Kessler of the Washington Post wrote:
In an effort to get peace talks back on track, the Obama administration is pressing Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to reverse last week's approval of 1,600 housing units in a disputed area of Jerusalem, make a substantial gesture toward the Palestinians, and publicly declare that all of the "core issues" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the status of Jerusalem, be included in upcoming talks, U.S. officials said.

The three demands, relayed on Friday by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton in a tense phone call with Netanyahu, have not been publicly disclosed by the administration. But Israel is expected to provide a formal response on Tuesday. U.S. officials are casting it as a test of Netanyahu's commitment to the relationship between the United States and Israel. U.S. pushing Netanyahu to accept demands for peace talks


Meanwhile, tempers are flairing in the West Bank where groups of young Palestinians began rioting in response to Israel's anouncement of its discriminatory building project, and the recent opening of an historic synagogue in East Jerusalem.

Isabel Kershner of the New York Times wrote:
In what appeared to be a case of unfortunate timing, Israel officially inaugurated a rebuilt synagogue in Jerusalem’s Old City on Monday, entangling what was intended to be a festive cultural event with the diplomatic row over new Israeli construction in the contested territory.

The restoration of the Hurva Synagogue, which was destroyed by Jordanian forces during the 1948 war, has been under way for years. But its reopening ceremony coincided with a crisis in Israel-American relations over plans for new Jewish housing in East Jerusalem that were announced during a visit here last week by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

Like the rest of the Old City, the synagogue is located in territory that Israel conquered from Jordan in the 1967 war. Israel later annexed part of that territory, East Jerusalem, and claims sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, a claim that is not recognized by most of the world.
Rebuilt Synagogue Is Caught in Disputes Over Jerusalem
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 07:15 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

It seems the Obama Admin. is starting to grow a pair in confronting Israel by condemning them for it's announcement of a building project for Jews only in East Jerusalem--an area that the Palestinians and the international community would like to reserve for a future capitol of a Palestinian state--right at the time that the US vice president personally traveled to the region in an attempt to revitalize peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.



Another interpretation is that the Obama administration has decided to meddle in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. Also, how does the international community get the ethical right to be concerned about a future capitol of a Palestinian state, when that land is part of another nation?

If East Jerusalem is really not part of Israel, perhaps that should be stated, rather than the attempt to not ruffle any feathers in Israel. Straight confrontation might then show both parties for their divergent agendas?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:30 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Another interpretation is that the Obama administration has decided to meddle in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation.


You say that like it's an uncommon event, Foofie. Let me assure you that there won't be a hundred thousand plus dead Israelis, millions of refugees, destroyed cities, nor will there be houses broken into and trashed, women raped, or little kids killed with phosphorus and cluster bombs.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:50 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:

Iraq singled out for defiance, but it's not alone: many U.N. resolutions are violated while Bush demands enforcement for one country - World


"The United States systematically prevents any enforcement of any resolutions regarding Israel. As far as the Security Council is concerned as a body, it's not too important because the United States keeps it from being too important," Paul noted.

Hypocrisy much?


Other cases of noncompliance include Morocco, which invaded the former Spanish colony of Western Sahara in 1975 and remains in occupation there; Turkey, which invaded Cyprus in 1974 and remains in occupation of the northern one-third of the island in violation of U.N. demands that it withdraw; and Indonesia, which in 1975 invaded and occupied East Timor shortly before East Timor was slated to attain independence, but withdrew from the island in 1999. There are also U.N. resolutions relating to Kashmir, Angola, and numerous other conflicts around the world.

According to Stephen Zunes, an associate professor of politics at San Francisco University and Middle East editor for Foreign Policy in Focus, the list of Security Council resolutions that Bush has charged the Baghdad regime is flouting is shorter than the list of U.N. Security Council resolutions currently being violated by U.S. allies.

"Not only has the United States not talked about invading these countries, the United States has blocked sanctions or other means of enforcing them and even provides military and economic aid that makes their ongoing violations possible," said Zunes.

Because the Security Council has not authorized the use of force, the United States' patrolling of "no-fly zones" in Iraq is itself illegal, said Zunes, even though this is done in the name of enforcing U.N. resolutions.

"Member states have spoken out against this clearly. [U.N. Secretary General] Kofi Annan has said there is no such authorization for this kind of action," Zunes said. "If the United States could unilaterally bomb Iraq for its violations, what's to stop Russia from bombing Israel or France from bombing Turkey or Great Britain from bombing Morocco? Those states are also in violation of United Nations resolutions. That's the logic the United States is employing."

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:TELttcEuVBIJ:findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_41_38/ai_92524089/+what+country+has+defied+the+most+UN+resolutions%3F&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:19 pm
Apparently even the Wash. Post is starting to have problems with Obama's policies towards Israel:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031502667.html

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:24 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:

Another interpretation is that the Obama administration has decided to meddle in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation.


Oh, why not be honest? They're only sovereign because we say so.

And what more; Israel doesn't like it much when the shoe is on the other foot, it seems Laughing

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:32 pm
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/03/what-obama-is-actually-trying-to-do-in-israel/37548/

Quote:
What Obama is Actually Trying to Do in Israel

Mar 16 2010, 11:07 AM ET
There is much speculation that this kerfluffle over 1,600 theoretical apartments on the wrong side of the green line in Jerusalem will lead to a rupture in American-Israeli relations, but analysts who suggest this are missing the point of President Obama's maneuverings. I've been on the phone with many of the usual suspects (White House and otherwise), and I think it's fair to say that Obama is not trying to destroy America's relations with Israel; he's trying to organize Tzipi Livni's campaign for prime minister, or at least for her inclusion in a broad-based centrist government. I'm not actually suggesting that the White House is directly meddling in internal Israeli politics, but it's clear to everyone -- at the White House, at the State Department, at Goldblog -- that no progress will be made on any front if Avigdor Lieberman's far-right party, Yisrael Beiteinu, and Eli Yishai's fundamentalist Shas Party, remain in Netanyahu's surpassingly fragile coalition.

So what is the goal? The goal is force a rupture in the governing coalition that will make it necessary for Netanyahu to take into his government Livni's centrist Kadima Party (he has already tried to do this, but too much on his terms) and form a broad, 68-seat majority in Knesset that does not have to rely on gangsters, messianists and medievalists for votes. It's up to Livni, of course, to recognize that it is in Israel's best interests to join a government with Netanyahu and Barak, and I, for one, hope she puts the interests of Israel ahead of her own ambitions.

Obama knows that this sort of stable, centrist coalition is the key to success. He would rather, I understand, not have to deal with Netanyahu at all -- people near the President say that, for one thing, Obama doesn't think that Netanyahu is very bright, and there is no chemistry at all between the two men -- but he'd rather have a Netanyahu who is being pressured from his left than a Netanyahu who is being pressured from the right.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 10:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
What Obama is Actually Trying to Do in Israel


Simple enough. The wretched bastard is trying to destroy Israel....

Quote:
Obama knows that this sort of stable, centrist coalition is the key to success. He would rather, I understand, not have to deal with Netanyahu at all -- people near the President say that, for one thing, Obama doesn't think that Netanyahu is very bright...


I mean, that's really ******* wonderful and absolutely tells me anything and everything I'd ever need to know about the Atlantic and whoever wrote this piece of ****. Obama can't speak coherently without a teleprompter while Bibi is described by people who knew him at MIT as having been best/brightest category there meaning an IQ at least in the 160 range and likely more like 180, which would be 55 points higher than Obama's.

Bibi will still be there four years from now. Obama definitely will not. If he isn't in some sort of an assylum from the stress, he'll be back doing his ward-heeling/community organizing thing in Chicago.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 10:11 pm
Seems even the palesavages can't come up with anything nice to say about Obama:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=128393

Quote:

...JERUSALEM " The chief of Hamas in the Gaza Strip has some political advice for President Obama: Get your house in order before mediating talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

"He is unable to do anything in the region (Middle East) before he restores his dignity and the trust of his own people," Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas chief in Gaza, told WND in an interview yesterday.

Zahar noticed Obama's slipping domestic poll numbers and also claimed the people of the Middle East have lost confidence in the man who once inspired hope in the likes of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. ...
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 08:57 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Another interpretation is that the Obama administration has decided to meddle in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation.


Oh, why not be honest? They're only sovereign because we say so.

And what more; Israel doesn't like it much when the shoe is on the other foot, it seems Laughing

Cycloptichorn


No. They are sovereign because in winning the four wars they fought they were a counter-balance to Soviet influence in the region. And now, even if there was no U.S. military aid, and no Soviet Union to threaten, they would likely win a war. Remember (sorry, you are too young to remember) that Kissinger said that Israel has a Masada Complex.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 09:18 pm
@Foofie,
Without the billions in aid that they've received over the years, the country Israel, would be already forgotten.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 07:28 am
@JTT,
What are you saying? I guess you would like to see Israel destroyed. Israel is not going to go without a fight -- it is an independent country that will continue to defend itself.

The USA gets a tremendous return for the money loaned to Israel. Every president has learned this.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 09:10 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Without the billions in aid that they've received over the years, the country Israel, would be already forgotten.


That might be correct; however, a non-sequitor, since you forgot to say to whom it would be forgotten. The answer is: forgotten by the Gentile masses. The Gentile masses have no reason to remember Israel.

I believe many people are talking at cross-purposes when taking one or the other side of U.S. Israeli policy. Jews, I believe as a group, do not subscribe to the paradigm of those with the greatest number should have the ethical right to be the dominant group making decisions. That I believe is a Gentile paradigm. So, since there are more Gentiles in the U.S., and more Gentiles having died in U.S. wars, many Gentiles may believe they have earned the right (through sheer numbers and the greater "blood equity" they have earned through dying in U.S. wars - aka making them "more American") to have their opinions reflect the direction of U.S. foreign policy. However, I believe Jews, as a group, relate to "time" as the rationale as to who should ethically be dominant in decision making. In "time" I include who first discovered that there might be only one God, rather than a pantheon of pagan Gods, and also how long American Jews have lived in this country (oftentimes far longer than the families of many critics of U.S. Israeli policy). I will admit that while Jews do not have the same number of "dead" from the many U.S. wars, they have helped the U.S. domestic economy far out of proportion to their small numbers. So, which criterion may be better for the U.S.? The answer is based on who is asked. The answer is subjective and might correlate to one's social-economic class/religion/ethnicity.

Mind you, I do not believe there were as many vocal critics of WASP's who were pro-Lend Lease, prior to WWII. And, we do know that WASP's reflect a blood connection to Britain. Odd that people are so concerned about Jewish Americans and their concern for Israel, while concerns were not so anti-WASP during Lend Lease and the ensuing WWII (the U.S. lost 500,000 military, fighting in behalf of other nations in WWII; the U.S. never lost one military life, fighting in behalf of Israel's four wars in the 20th century). So, who is not seeing the forest for the trees?

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 10:02 am
The USA has been giving financial and other aid to both Gaza and Israel. Israel has also been receiving aid from private donors.Without USA's aid to Gaza, the Gazians would starve, because other Arabs countries do not give Gaza aid, and too few Arab private donors give Gaza financial aid..
0 Replies
 
 

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