ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Your opinion is noted Freeduck. You are avoiding or diverting from any statement that you can't rebut and you pile absurdity upon absurdity with your "I didn't know there were varying degrees of unacceptability" line. Using your line of reasoning, nobody would be able to defend themselves from anybody doing anything. And using your line of reasoning, if you lock up the bank robber because he robbed a bank, and then note that he isn't robbing banks, you release him because you conclude he is no longer a bank robber.

I don't think you'll have much luck making any kind of authoritative case that Israel has kidnapped, tortured, maimed, or decapitated Palestinians. Arrested and imprisoned those committing crimes against Israelis, yes.
I won't continue this any further but will say that it is not unreasonable for Israel to expect the Palestinians to formally and official renounce all terrorist activity against Israel, to accept Israel's right to exist, and to do whatever it can reasonably do to denounce and prevent terrorist activity before Israel has any moral or ethical imperative to take down that wall.

(As Arab terrorists are fond of decapitation to humiliate the victims, it follows that they would not be opposed to doing that to Israelis. I am not aware that it is a particular complaint about the Palestinian leadership, however, so I would not object to removing that one from the list.)

You must explain why they are 'absurdities.' Calling them absurdity does nothing to support your position.

I'm avoiding red herrings and traveling down paths of irrelevance with you. There is nothing absurd about pointing out that the word "unacceptable" is rather definitive. It IS absurd to come up with these bizarre and arbitrary degrees of unacceptability.


No, that's not my line of reasoning. I'm simply trying to get you to admit that if the fence is for security reasons then it's path is not, and pointing out that your criteria for the wall to be taken down is arbitrary, unreachable, and unlikely to actually result in the wall being taken down.


Uh, I didn't say decapitated. I deliberately left that out. Though you could make a case that they have decapitated many Palestinians in assassinations and bombings. Probably not what you meant, though.

As for my "authoritative case", you are right that I'm no authority, but there is plenty of evidence. Many of those arrested in the territories are not accused of crimes and have no due process but are held indefinitely for "security reason". I don't see much difference between that and kidnapping.



Torture

That just leaves maiming, which I shouldn't think you would need me to bring you evidence of after the Gaza invasion.



I think it is unreasonable seeing as how the wall is not built within their recognized borders and that it violates the human rights of the Palestinians. Which is where we were going before we decided to throw in a bunch of other irrelevant stuff. The facts still stand and stare you in the face. You've already admitted to everything but the conclusion.

Foxie wrote:

Hey, Foxie, can you guarantee that all Americans will "renounce all terrorist activity against Americans?" You do remember the Unabomber and Tim McVeigh don't you? How about Columbine High School in Colorado? Also the Virginia Tech University student who killed 32 people?

Your "demands" are ridiculous and unreasonable on the face of it.

Always, unbearably illogical, the imbecile, Cicerone Imposter equates the Unabomber, Tim McVeigh and the Columbine killers to the Palestinians.

The cretin, Cicerone Imposter, does not appear to realize that Foxfyre was writing about "THE PALESTINIANS AS A GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY WHICH WOULD RENOUNCE ALL TERRORIST ACTIVITY.

The people mentioned by Cicerone Imposter are NOT governmental entities.

As I have said many times, the poor man, Cicerone Imposter ,is senile.

Read it and weep- Obama's foreign policy will be as bad for the USA as his domestic policies!

Note:


Since his first moments in office, President Barack Obama has embarked on a policy course which rejects Bush's belief that the quest for freedom is universal as so much American chauvinism. For Obama, Islamic hostility towards the West is caused by American arrogance, not the absence of freedom. And because American arrogance is the root of the problem, the solution must be American contrition. It is this view that propels Obama from one international apology tour to the next and causes him to air the CIA's laundry in public. As far as he is concerned, the more apologetic he is, the more contrition he expresses for the actions of his predecessors, the greater the pay-off will be.

And yet, as we see from the behavior of Lebanon, Turkey, Syria and Iran over the past week alone, Obama's apologetics are not winning them over, but emboldening them to take more aggressive positions against the West. How can this be explained?

There is an alternative explanation for the behavior of the peoples of the Islamic world that actually can explain events, and has successfully forecast them. It has even engendered policy recommendations that might have mitigated both the popularity of Islamist parties and deterred these parties, once elected from taking provocative steps against Western states and interests. Unfortunately, every time this explanation is raised, Western policy makers head for the hills.

This explanation is really nothing more than an observation. It observes that the populations of Islamic countries and societies support Islamist parties like the AKP and Hizbullah and Hamas because they support what they stand for. This explanation notes that tens and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, Lebanese, Iranians, Turks, Egyptians and others voluntarily congregate in public venues and swoon when Islamist leaders tell them that Islam will defeat the West and promise the death of America and the death of Israel.

The jihadist message resonates with them. Their hearts and minds have already been won over. Contrary to what Western leaders as distinct as Bush and Obama believe, the hearts and minds of the Islamic world are not presently in play. From Beirut to the Taliban-controlled Northwest Frontier Province in Pakistan, jihadists enjoy public support because the public supports their aim of defeating the West with bullets, with bombs, and with ballots.

It is too early to know how Obama will react when he like Bush is no longer able to deny that his strategy for winning over the hearts and minds of the Islamic world has failed. We don't know if like Bush before him, he will simply ignore reality and pretend that nothing has happened; if he will blame his political opponents or Israel for not joining him in his contrition; or if he will cast about for another central organizing principle that will explain hostile Islamic behavior.

What is clear is that in the absence of Western " and specifically American " willingness to consider the possibility that what is happening in the Islamic world has next to nothing to do with either what the West embodies or what it has done, and everything to do with the resonance of the Islamist message within the Islamic world, events like the expected loss of Lebanon in June will continue to be met with incoherent prattling and confusion.

Like it or not, it appears that the rising forces in the Islamic world perceive themselves as at war with Western civilization. They cannot be convinced to believe otherwise by either elections or apologies. And the current situation, in which only one side is willing to recognize that there is a war going on between two mutually exclusive ways of organizing human societies, will only lead us to more violent and devastating clashes in the future.


JWR contributor Caroline B. Glick is the senior Middle East Fellow at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, DC and the deputy managing editor of The Jerusalem Post

I love to read Herr Hinteler's posts since I am building a file of German expressions I pick up in my reading.

Gott mit Uns!( do I have that spelled correctly, Herr Hinteler?)

Arbeit Mach Frei

Nacht und Nebel Erlass

The German language is so interesting.

62% of Jews view Obama as inimical to Israel. After Netanyahu gets through with Obama( BO does not know that Netanyahu is not a wimp like Arlen Specter) the number of Jews who view Obama as friendly to Israel will decrease.

Netanyahu's first priority is not a two state solution. It is to stop the Iranian fanatics( who, it must be remebered, held hundreds of innocent Americans hostage during the tenure of the inept Jimmy Carter.

We have very little in common with Iran. The Mullahs who run the country are fanatics. Israel has always been our friend.

Thousands of Americans have gone to live in Israel. Very few have gone to Iran where women are brutalized and mistreated.

Netanyahu will either persuade BO to put immense pressure on Iran(gasoline supplies? )\ to stop the process of building a nuclear device, or the Israelis, who have heard the Iran threat to destroy them, will take out the Iranian nuclear complex as they took out the Iraqi and Syrian Nuclear Buildings.

Hamas Stealing Medical Supplies in Arab Areas



Hamas stealing medical equipment, medicines
by elder of ziyon Wednesday, May. 20, 2009 at 10:31 AM


Hamas stealing medical equipment, medicines http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=windows-1256&langpair=auto|en&u=http://www.palpress.ps/arabic/index.php%3Fmaa%3DReadStory%26ChannelID%3D55452&tbb=1&rurl=translate.google.com

Hamas stealing medical equipment, medicines

The Palestinian Ministry of Health has charged Hamas with stealing ambulances donated by Arab countries, painting them black and taking expensive medical equipment on board for their own purposes.

Moreover, Hamas has taken tons of medicines and given them to medical clinics aligned with their movement to the exclusion of public hospitals. They have also sold the medicines at huge profits. Beyond that, Hamas is claiming not to have enough medicine even though a four month supply is sitting in warehouses.

The spokesman charged Hamas with destroying the health infrastructure in Gaza, replacing experienced doctors with Hamas lackeys who have little medical knowledge, causing many patients to die.

clevelandindy.org

On our TV news this morning, a report on how Israel continues to force (non-combatant, ordinary, property-owning) Palestinians out of their homes in East Jerusalem.

Apparently the reason for clearing this particular area is not "security" this time, but the presence of a 2000-year-old Jewish tomb in the vicinity.

That post is beneath contempt.

Beneath contempt for you, perhaps but not for me, who has read Herr Hinteler's many posts. If you did not catch the contempt that Herr Hinteler has for the USA, I did. I suggest that Herr Hinteler stick to posting items about the horrible conditions in Germany and stop Monday morning quarterbacking about the USA which he knows so little about!

You see. McTag. Netanyahu would read your post and wonder if you have ever heard of the Holocaust! Have you?

And I would suggest to you to consider the old adage that "the onlooker sees more of the game."

"What knows he of England, who only England knows?"

Some incredibly insular comments come out of America and onto these pages, it seems to me.

Well, McTag--I have traveled in Europe for years when I had my import-export business.
MY OPINION is that many Europeans will NEVER get over their chagrin at being the recepients of the US's largesse after World War II as supplied mainly by the Marshall Plan.

My travels in Germany have convinced me that some Germans think they should have won World War II because (all serious thinkers know) that Germany contains the best thinkers and scientists in the world( or at least, they would have if they hadn't killed or chased all the Germans who happened to be of the Jewish faith out of the country.

That is why I think it is highly unseemly for any German to denigrate Israel in any way shape or form or, indeed, to express solidarity with the Palestinians, who, if truth be told, would effect their own kind of final solution.

That's quite a leap of logic, to arrive at your final pronouncement.

As a side issue, I am grateful for USA "largesse" but you should realise no country makes such decisions for purely humanitarian reasons. No doubt too, your countrymen are thankful that Europe's war kick-started your economy out of recession in 1940, enabling subsequent prosperity.

My country men were NOT HAPPY that the Europeans kick started the economy with a war. You see, sir, the idiot that got us into war was FDR, a left leaning bastard. Because he failed to get us out of the depression, he was all for a war.

And there was me thinking he was listening to Mr Churchill's exhortations.

As was Regan and the two Bushes.

I do believe that there are many Europeans, from the end of WWII and including today, that have no remorse for the Final Solution; perhaps, just admitting it "was wrong." And, I also believe the style of European anti-Semitism still considers Jews as "perennial outsiders." So different than the U.S.A. where Jewish is just another American ethnic group, and very much part of the American fabric.

I do not dislike the German people; I just think they have collectively become the Jews that they were contemptuous of, since the country is now a profitable business. However, they are not, as you allude to, the zenith of scientific thinking, as they were in the 19th century (when many Jews were in the scientific community). But, I do think Europe is much "happier" without its Jewish population, since Europe is not as big as the U.S.A. , and I believe Europeans really have not transcended the atavistic belief that to be true European, one must be descended from the ancient tribes that wandered there and literally squattered on the land. But, if there is a God, he might be giving the Europeans today a group of Semites that they will really enjoy, since they did not seem to appreciate those Semites that harken back to Moses. Perhaps, a divine joke on the Europeans?