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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:44 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Open the champagne bottles, set off the fireworks, and let ican and his neocons celebrate the simple fact that they found a mistake made by ci!

What a bunch of dorks.


Foreswear now all similar accusations on future A2K threads, and we might take you umbrage seriously.


Finn, No such relief for people who continue to make statements that are untrue or of personal opinion without any support from credible sources. My errors and omissions will probably be restricted to grammar; something most of us fail at.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 12:34 pm
Quote:

http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10222169.html

Israeli soldiers play a game of volleyball with parked tanks in background, at a base on the border with the Gaza Strip. The Gaza deal, which took effect at 6 a.m., is supposed to last six months.



Israel-Hamas Gaza truce begins
AP
Published: June 19, 2008, 08:41


Jerusalem: A long-sought truce between Israel and Gaza militants went into effect early Thursday, with the aim of halting militant attacks and a bruising Israeli blockade that have made life unbearable for people living on both sides of the border.

A day of intense Palestinian rocket and mortar fire and Israeli air reprisals on Wednesday underscored just how fragile the Egyptian-brokered agreement would be.

Hamas security reported that the Israeli navy fired four shells into the waters off Gaza City after the truce began; the military had no immediate comment. Hamas has run the territory since seizing control a year ago.

There were no other reports of fire.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Although each side has expressed skepticism over the other's commitment to the accord, the hope is that it will avert an Israeli military invasion of the tiny seaside territory it pulled out of nearly three years ago.

Just a day before the cease-fire was set to take hold, Israel launched another diplomatic initiative - a public call on neighboring Lebanon to open peace negotiations. Lebanon's premier quickly rejected the call.

The Gaza deal, which took effect at 6 a.m., is supposed to last six months. According to its terms, militants will immediately halt their attacks on Israel, and Israel will cease its raids.

After three days, Israel is to ease its blockade of Gaza to allow the shipment of some supplies to resume. A week later Israel is to further ease restrictions at cargo crossings. In a final stage, the sides are supposed to talk about opening a major border passage between Gaza and Egypt and the release of an Israeli soldier Hamas has held for two years.

Israel's blockade was imposed in an effort to pressure Hamas to stop attacks from Iranian-backed militants, who have been bombarding southern Israel with rockets and mortars for seven years.

The rate of fire increased after Israel pulled its troops and settlers out of Gaza in 2005 and stepped up further last year after Hamas wrested power from forces loyal to moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, whose government controls the West Bank.

"We in Hamas are committed to this calm and are interested in making it succeed," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said shortly before the truce went into effect. "The ball is now in Israel's court."

"I hope it will succeed. I believe there will be quiet in (Israel's) south," Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said in a speech Wednesday to philanthropists. But he also said he instructed his military "to prepare for any operation, short or long, that might be necessary" if the truce breaks down.

A cease-fire in November 2006 lasted only weeks before unraveling.

The opening of Gaza's Rafah crossing with Egypt, snapped shut after Hamas violently wrested control of Gaza a year ago, is a major Hamas demand. Israel's point man on the truce negotiations, Defense Ministry official Amos Gilad, said late Wednesday that Rafah would not reopen if Israeli Cpl. Gilad Schalit were not released.

But in an e-mail Thursday, Hamas' military wing said Schalit, captured in a cross-border raid, would not be freed unless hundreds of Palestinian prisoners were.

Israel has balked at releasing some of the militants Hamas wants freed because they were involved in fatal attacks on Israelis.

The Hamas Interior Ministry sent an e-mail to reporters Thursday saying 260 Palestinians who had been stranded in Egypt after seeking medical treatment there had crossed back into Gaza through Rafah overnight.

It said 5,517 Gazans, including students and Palestinians with residency abroad, have applied to leave if Rafah is opened. "We expect very good news in the next few days," the ministry said - hinting at a temporary opening to allow those people to leave.

Palestinians in Gaza have suffered the consequences of punishing Israeli retribution - airstrikes and military raids targeting gunmen and a blockade that has cut off many vital supplies.

Israelis in communities near the Gaza Strip have lived for years with barrages of mortars and rockets that send them scrambling for cover almost every day.

On Wednesday, the truce still seemed remote. The military said at least 40 rockets and 10 mortar shells exploded in Israel by nightfall, an especially high one-day total.

Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for much of the rocket fire, saying it was avenging Israeli airstrikes that killed 10 militants in the previous two days. Israel hit back with two more airstrikes, wounding two Palestinians, according to Hamas security officials.

Palestinians reported that a Hamas militant was killed in an Israeli airstrike in central Gaza shortly before the truce took hold. The military confirmed it attacked a rocket squad, but said it could not confirm an airstrike.

One of the rockets from Gaza on Wednesday exploded in Ilan Basherim's greenhouse at Moshav Yesha, not far from Gaza.

"This cease-fire will give more strength to Hamas, and they will be more violent in another six months. This is not good for Israel, and definitely not good for us," said Basherim, 38.

Khaled Abdel Halem, a 24-year-old Gaza law student, said he would be happy if Israel lifted the blockade, alleviating Gaza's abject poverty.

"But honestly, I don't have much hope that this agreement will hold for a long time. We are not talking about an agreement between friends or brothers. We are talking about a deal between two enemies who wish death for each other all the time."

Peter Lerner, an Israeli military spokesman, said preparations were under way to increase the number of trucks carrying goods into Gaza beginning Sunday if the truce holds.

Only one crossing is currently capable of operating at full capacity because two others have been damaged by Palestinian attacks, he said.

Lerner said fuel shipments would not immediately increase. Israel has restricted fuel supplies into Gaza, causing shortages and forcing motorists to use alternative modes of transportation.

Egypt labored for months to broker the deal, acting as middleman because Israel, like much of the international community, shuns Hamas for refusing to recognize Israel or renounce violence.

In Washington, White House deputy press secretary Gordon Johndroe was hopeful.

"We hope this means no more rockets will be fired by Hamas at innocent Israelis as well as lead to a better atmosphere for talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority," he said, "but for that to happen, Hamas has to choose to become a legitimate political party and give up terrorism."

Israel's call on Lebanon to open peace talks came after the second round of indirect talks between Israel and Syria in Turkey - contacts made public just last month.

Government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel was interested in "direct, bilateral" talks and ready to put "every issue of contention" on the table, including the dispute over the Chebaa Farms enclave.

A UN-drawn border calls the 15-square-mile parcel of wasteland part of Syria under Israeli occupation, but Hezbollah insists it belongs to Lebanon and has used it to explain its continuing attacks on Israel.

Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora rejected Israel's call.

"Lebanon's known position before this government is that there is no place for bilateral negotiations between Lebanon and Israel," Saniora's media office said in a statement late Wednesday.

Hezbollah legislator Nawar al-Saheli told The Associated Press that the Israeli offer is "ridiculous propaganda."

US pressure may be behind the Israeli move. On Monday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced US backing for a new diplomatic push to resolve the Chebaa Farms land dispute in a gesture to the new Lebanese government, and as a catalyst for solving bigger issues in the region.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 12:46 pm
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

When the allies of the Palestinian Arabs invaded Israel in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs--not the Israeli Arabs--forfeited their rights granted by UN resolution 181.

The Palestinian Arabs for 61 years have been paying the price for their first forfeiture, and their many repetitions of that forfeiture. To end their forfeiture, the Palestinian Arabs must cease and desist "threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression," and stop "any attempt to alter by force the settlement envisaged by" UN Resolution 81.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 01:05 pm
ican, When will you ever learn that to penalize the whole for the sins of the few is not only unethical but inhuman. There have been many white-anglo-saxon criminals; think about that for a moment if you are able.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 01:41 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, When will you ever learn that to penalize the whole for the sins of the few is not only unethical but inhuman. There have been many white-anglo-saxon criminals; think about that for a moment if you are able.

When will you, cice, ever learn that the Palestinians Arabs are accomplices of the Palestinian gangsters among them mass murdering Israeli non-murderers. This is true by reason of the fact that they do not even attempt or even ask for help to remove the Palestinian gangsters among them, much less actually remove them?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 02:49 pm
What you say has been obvious to me ever since the 1967 war, which I happen to remember, ican. The Palestinians do not desire peace, or it could have happened long ago. They want to exterminate the Jews from the entire region. Anything less they will never be satisfied with.

P. S. If Obama is elected, it bodes ill for the state of Israel.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 02:51 pm
The Palestinians exterminate the Jews? ROFL
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 03:09 pm
That's been the game plan going back before 1948 and beyond. The one who organized a terrorist organization to accomplish exactly that was Arafat who received a Nobel Peace prize because he said he renounced terrorism. The ink wasn't even dry on the contract before terrorist attacks resumed with increased deadly intensity. Both Hamas and Hezbollah are on record as intending the destruction of Israel. And though peaceful Israeli Arabs get caught in the crossfire, it is not Arabs that they are targeting.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 03:20 pm
ican711nm wrote:
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

When the allies of the Palestinian Arabs invaded Israel in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs--not the Israeli Arabs--forfeited their rights granted by UN resolution 181.


So that means if a friend of mine goes and punches you in the head, I have forfeited all my rights under the law? You owe me no further obligation under the law, and can do what you want with me and my property?

That's too stupid even by your standards.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 03:24 pm
McTag wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

When the allies of the Palestinian Arabs invaded Israel in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs--not the Israeli Arabs--forfeited their rights granted by UN resolution 181.


So that means if a friend of mine goes and punches you in the head, I have forfeited all my rights under the law? You owe me no further obligation under the law, and can do what you want with me and my property?

That's too stupid even by your standards.


Yes, but that's exactly their position. No matter how small the group that continues the violence, you're included as part of the enemy, and by that reasoning, your destruction.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 03:28 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
That's been the game plan going back before 1948 and beyond.


Wrong. Here's "the game plan going back before 1948 and beyond", as already supplied to you by Infrablue:

Quote:
Beginning in April of 1948 during the Civil War in Mandatory Palestine the Zionist forces engaged in Plan Dalet which they carried out to empty the areas controlled by them of their Arab populations. Scores of villages were ethnically cleansed and oftentimes razed to the ground as the various operations were carried out under Plan Dalet. In April of 1948 Operation Nachshon cleared villages in a swath between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Operation Harel was a continuation of Operation Nachshon that attempted to ethnically cleanse areas near Latrun of its Arab villages. It was only partially successful after the Zionist forces relocated the Harel brigade to Jerusalem. Operation Misparayim ethnically cleansed Haifa (the Mayor's beseeching notwithstanding) of its Arab population. Operation Chametz ethnically cleansed areas around Jaffa. Operation Jevussi attempted to isolate Jerusalem by destroying the Arab villages that surround the city, but was thwarted. Operation Yiftach cleansed eastern Galilee of its Arab population. Begining in May of that same year Operation Matateh razed the Arab villages between Tiberias and eastern Galilee. Operation Maccabi attempted again to cleanse areas near Latrun of its Arab villages, and to reach Ramalah district but was foiled. Operation Gideon cleansed Beisan of its Bedouin population which had been semi-sedintary. Operation Barak was partially successful in razing the Arab villages in the area of Bureir to the Negev desert. Through Operation Ben Ami the Zionist forces occupied Acre and cleansed Western Galilee of its Arab population. All of this occurred before the start of the war immediately following Britain's withdrawal and the surrounding Arab states' rush to assist the beleaguered Palestinian Arab population.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 03:50 pm
McTag wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

When the allies of the Palestinian Arabs invaded Israel in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs--not the Israeli Arabs--forfeited their rights granted by UN resolution 181.


So that means if a friend of mine goes and punches you in the head, I have forfeited all my rights under the law? You owe me no further obligation under the law, and can do what you want with me and my property?

That's too stupid even by your standards.

That conclusion by you, McTag, is too stupid even by your standards. If you are your friend's accomplice you are a criminal. Otherwise just call the police to help you stop your crazy friend.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 05:15 pm
Quote: If you are your friend's accomplice you are a criminal.

Wasn't even there; but still a friend.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 05:18 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Quote: If you are your friend's accomplice you are a criminal.

Wasn't even there; but still a friend.


If you werent there, then you cant be an accomplice.
Of course, if you allow someone that has committed a criminal act,and you know about that act, to hide in your house then you can be an accomplice after the fact.

That is also a criminal act.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 06:48 am
From the beginning Israel has not been blameless or just reactionary and they should held be accountable to their actions just as anyone else should regardless of any actions of others. Visa versa is also true. Until that is accepted by both sides no one is ever going to have peace in the middle east.

But maybe with any kind of luck at all, this truce will hold long enough to get someone ironed at all. Lord knows all those in this area need some luck. I am just glad that Israel and Hammas are at least showing a willingness to deal with each other which in itself seems a breakthrough whether it holds or not.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 07:15 am
ican711nm wrote:
McTag wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

When the allies of the Palestinian Arabs invaded Israel in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs--not the Israeli Arabs--forfeited their rights granted by UN resolution 181.


So that means if a friend of mine goes and punches you in the head, I have forfeited all my rights under the law? You owe me no further obligation under the law, and can do what you want with me and my property?

That's too stupid even by your standards.

That conclusion by you, McTag, is too stupid even by your standards. If you are your friend's accomplice you are a criminal. Otherwise just call the police to help you stop your crazy friend.


So the villagers living around Jerusalem, and in the West Bank, and elsewhere in many places (especially on hills, near water and on fertile land, all of whom have been cleared away) were the accomplices of Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon who attacked Israel in 1948?

What an extremely convenient argument. And a nonsensical one.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 07:28 am
revel wrote:
From the beginning Israel has not been blameless or just reactionary and they should held be accountable to their actions just as anyone else should regardless of any actions of others. Visa versa is also true. Until that is accepted by both sides no one is ever going to have peace in the middle east.

But maybe with any kind of luck at all, this truce will hold long enough to get someone ironed at all. Lord knows all those in this area need some luck. I am just glad that Israel and Hammas are at least showing a willingness to deal with each other which in itself seems a breakthrough whether it holds or not.


The thing is, the Israelis have been willing to have peace from the beginning. It is the non-Israeli Palestinians who have not wanted peace if that peace included peace for the Israelis. Has Israel at times overreacted? Almost certainly. Is that understandable when their markets and synagogues and busloads of school children are being firebombed? Most reasonable people would at least understand Israel's frustration even if they thought Israel overrreacted. Have innocents (on both sides) been harmed. Yes and that is the inevitable and the most tragic side of all war.

Will Israel become a good neighbor to the Palestinians if the Palestinians do agree that the Israelis deserve to live in peace? As the Israelis have not been the aggressors for a long long time now, I believe they will. Will they trust the Palestinians immediately? After sixty years of empty and broken promises, refusal to agree to brokered peace accords, of Arab aggression, and terror attacks immediately following hand shakes, I think the Israelis would be idiots to not wait and see if the Palestinians are finally, for the first time, serious about making peace if not friends.

If the Palestinians do indeed stop firing rockets into Israel, if they stop kidnapping Israelis, if they stop suicide bombings, if they stop threats to exterminate Israel, if they take incendiary language off their websites and out of their press, and if they BEHAVE peacefully toward the Israelis, then and only then do the Palestinians deserve to be treated as friends and neighbors. If Israel does not reciprocate appropriately, I will condemn Israel as the rest of you have been doing all along because then, for the very first time, I will believe Israel deserves condemnation.

Until then, I believe Israel are the good guys defending themselves against people who intend no good toward Israel. I do not believe Israel must disarm or give Palestinians majority power in Israel in order to be a good friend to the Palestinians however.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 09:41 am
Fox wrote (with a straight face, no doubt): The thing is, the Israelis have been willing to have peace from the beginning.

Yes, Israelis "have been willing to have peace from the beginning" while they confiscate Palestinian lands/properties at will without any legal rights for Palestinians; not even freedom of movement. Gee, such generous offers from the Israelis, why aren't the Palestinians in agreement? Makes one wonder where their heads are!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 09:54 am
I believe the American Indians have it right; they call what Israelis offer as "forked tongue." They continue to take away while offering peace.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 12:40 pm
AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN

When the allies of the Palestinian Arabs invaded Israel in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs--not the Israeli Arabs--forfeited their rights granted by UN resolution 181.

The Palestinian Arabs for 61 years have been paying the price for their first forfeiture, and their many repetitions of that forfeiture. To end their forfeiture, the Palestinian Arabs must cease and desist "threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression," and stop "any attempt to alter by force the settlement envisaged by" UN Resolution 81.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm
UN 1947 PALESTINIAN RESOLUTION 181

The Palestinians Arabs are accomplices of the Palestinian gangsters among them mass murdering Israeli non-murderers. This is true because they do not even attempt or even ask for help to remove the Palestinian gangsters among them, much less actually remove them?
0 Replies
 
 

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