ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Foxfyre wrote:

So is 'feeling responsible' sufficient?

No, not at all.

Foxfyre wrote:

Should the son of the rail operator be supporting a Jewish family for the rest of his life to atone for the sins of the father?

I don't think so, and this was about the comapny's responsibility.

Foxfyre wrote:

What is your personal responsibility?

It is

a) the same as any other German born past that time,
b) a more special since some great-aunt's in-laws were connected to the regime.

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Should the son of an Israeli Jew be responsible to support the son of a Pal who abandoned the newly-formed Israel. Absolutely not!

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But you miss the point: the son of an Israeli Jew may voluntarily sponsor or support a Palestinian. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that happens. You see, I'm a Jew-hater.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
So is 'feeling responsible' sufficient?

No, not at all.

Foxfyre wrote:
Should the son of the rail operator be supporting a Jewish family for the rest of his life to atone for the sins of the father?

I don't think so, and this was about the comapny's responsibility.

Foxfyre wrote:
What is your personal responsibility?

It is

a) the same as any other German born past that time,
b) a more special since some great-aunt's in-laws were connected to the regime.

Companies don't make decisions or do anything. People within the company do. Back during the 1970s, the Nestle Corporation was magnanimously giving free infant formula to poor African mothers who gratefully accepted it and fed it to their babies while their own mother's milk dried up. And when the mother could no longer feed her baby the natural way, Nestle then started charging for the forumla. Many mothers had no money to buy it and there was suddenly massive malnutrition for countless infants. When Nestle refused to cease and desist this horrendous practice, we in the USA were alerted by social workers in the field. We helped organize and carry out a massive boycott of Nestle products. Nestle makes an enormous variety of products, but we were able to get their attention. They ceased and desisted from that terrible practice. And with their new, more humane policies in place, we all started buying Nestle products again.

Nestle is now a fine, prosperous global corporation that provides a lot of great products and employs hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. Should the current management and employees be forever responsible for unscrupulous marketing done by people 30 years ago? Will the next generation be personally liable for any screw ups or bad choices made by somebody in the company now?

It seems to me that people and companies and countrys that recognize the error of their ways and repent--i.e. change their bad policies to good policies--should be commended, not forever despised. This most especially should apply to people and companies and nations that had nothing to do with bad choices made by their predecessors.

Compared to many if not most nations of the world and their own history, Israel does pretty darn well in enforcing human rights and democratic principles. I think they deserve far more praise than criticism for that.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

But you miss the point: the son of an Israeli Jew may voluntarily sponsor or support a Palestinian. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that happens. You see, I'm a Jew-hater.

It was pretty evident that you were. Thanks for the confirmation.

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Glad you don't see the irony, and you never will.

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I suppose, Foxfyre, you re-read the history of the Nestlé boycott again :wink:

Foxfyre wrote:

Companies don't make decisions or do anything. People within the company do.

If that really would be so, the Deutsch Bahn shouldn't bother at all about its history - as well as IG Farben and others Question

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Quote:

It seems to me that people and companies and countrys that recognize the error of their ways and repent--i.e. change their bad policies to good policies--should be commended, not forever despised. This most especially should apply to people and companies and nations that had nothing to do with bad choices made by their predecessors.

Nothing bad happens to companies who 'recognize the errors of their ways.' You can't just say you're sorry if you are an individual in America; usually there are major and life-changing ramifications for major mistakes.

Thanks to our Robbern-baron written corporate law, however, companies who engage in morally poor decisions are rarely if ever punished in any way, and the people who run the companies almost never are. They get to walk away from their evil with no reprecussions.

Viz the recent mortgage market meltdown: many Mortgage brokers and investment companies knew they were selling people homes they couldn't afford and just didn't give a damn. But will they personally see the repercussions of their actions? Hell no.

Cycloptichorn

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Glad you don't see the irony, and you never will.

Do you even know the meaning of "irony?"

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I know, because I have faith in Jews that there are those who still believe in hunanity over Zionism. Ain't that something! Irony.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

I suppose, Foxfyre, you re-read the history of the Nestlé boycott again :wink:

Foxfyre wrote:
Companies don't make decisions or do anything. People within the company do.

If that really would be so, the Deutsch Bahn shouldn't bother at all about its history - as well as IG Farben and others

Nope. Never read the history. Just listened to the testimony of those actually working in the field during that time and responded in the way I thought was right. And when those same folks advised us that the situation was being made right, I believed them again. Knowing one's history is absolutely important and often necessary. We should also know what liabilities we are acquiring as a result of the past history of the company, of the area, of the football team or whatever. There is a huge difference, however, in knowing one's history and accepting blame for it. The former is healthy. The latter is not.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I know, because I have faith in Jews that there are those who still believe in hunanity over Zionism. Ain't that something! Irony.

Israelis are clearly inhumane by deterring Pals from destroying Israel and Israelis.

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Advocate, Your problem is your inability to separate the bad and the good in Israelis. You think all Israelis are above Palestinians. That's what some would call bigotry.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Nope. Never read the history. Just listened to the testimony of those actually working in the field during that time and responded in the way I thought was right.

Well, I was engaged in the boycott personally.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Advocate, Your problem is your inability to separate the bad and the good in Israelis. You think all Israelis are above Palestinians. That's what some would call bigotry.

Right, Israelis are biased against those who wish to kill them.

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Some Israelis think that; not all. Your head will never absorb the truth, because you have some form of mental block.

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Here's some evidence to prove that not all Jews believe in the Zionist cause.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Here's some evidence to prove that not all Jews believe in the Zionist cause.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Not all people in the USA agree that we should be in Iraq. So what?

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Advocate wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
Here's some evidence to prove that not all Jews believe in the Zionist cause.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Not all people in the USA agree that we should be in Iraq. So what?

So both they and the anti-zionists are right, that's what.

Advocate: do you believe that all Israelis are above all Pals?

Cycloptichorn

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I'm going to go waaaaaaay out on a limb here and suggest that 99.1% of all Israelis, i.e. Zionists, non-Zionists, and Arab Israeli citizens, would prefer to not have rockets fired into their neighborhoods, would like not to be blown up on a bus or in a crowded market, and would like to not be kidnapped, tortured, and beheaded. I'm also going to guess that a substantial majority are not blaming all Palestinians for these things that happen to Israelis.

The problem is, so long as the Palestinian leaders/government is committed to the destruction of Israel, Israel has no way of knowing who are the peaceful Palestinians and who are the terrorists. Only the terrorists are targeted, but all wind up being punished as this is the cruel fact of all war.

I don't believe anybody thinks an Israel life is more valuable than a Palestinian life. But I'm not seeing any evidence that Israel is determined to exterminate the Palestinians either. I am seeing evidence that militant Palestinians are trying to kill Israelis.

I rather think that is an important distinction to make in assessing the policies of each.

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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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