Well, I guess your experiences in Muslim countries are dispositive of the matter. Talk about anecdotal evidence!
Advocate, Do you have anecdotal evidence to the contrary?
You have failed to answer my question: Exactly which Muslim countries are you talking about?
I don't believe that anyone with even a basic understanding of history believes that, absent Israel, the Middle East would be a land of peace and progress. Merely the facts associated with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the deceit and expropriations of territory on the part of Britain and France were sufficient to cause several generations of turmoil. Add to that the relative economic backwardness of this area, so close to Europe, and the historical distemper of the Moslem world noted in the article, and there is more than enough cause for discord, revolution and warfare to last a century.
Similarly, I don't believe that the critics of Israel want them to give "consessions" to the Palestinian population that has lived for forty years under Israeli military occupation. Merely their basic human rights as enunciated in the UN charter would be sufficient to quiet most critics of Israel.
There is no doubt the ambitions for more territory and the exclusionary Zionist policies of Israel have seriously exacerbated an already bad and dangerous situation. Instead of becoming a force for the economic and political advancement of the region, Israel has - along with the Arabs - made this confrontation a very destructive new element in an already bad scene.
George, it is amusing that you mention the Zionist exclusionary policies. They don't exist, and it is really the Muslims who seek to kill, persecute, or drive out all non-Muslims, especially Jews. Regarding the latter, the Muslims will kill as many as possible, even civilians.
Zionist backwardness, injustice, and intolerance is not justified by the same failings on the part of their Moslem neighbors. Nor does it contribute anything beneficial to the already difficult problem of the independently caused Islamic confrontation with the West. Indeed unwise Israeli policies have significantly exacerbated this already difficult problem, and have harmed the long-term interests of Israel as well.
Israel has had some unwise policies. For instance, it was foolish to give up land for peace. It should have never returned the Sinai to Egypt, which has rewarded Israel with the coldest of relationships. Israel should not have thought it could deal in good faith with the likes of Arafat and other Pal leaders, who consistently showed that they prefer to remain enemies of Israel. But, with Israel, hope springs eternal, however naive this may be.
Sinai. Returned to Egypt.
I see.
Bcause Israel owned it originally .... when did say?
Israel took it as a prize of war. You may recall that Egypt attacked Israel in three wars. It is similar to when Germany lost land following its aggressive wars.
cicerone imposter wrote:Advocate wrote:Israel took it as a prize of war. You may recall that Egypt attacked Israel in three wars. It is similar to when Germany lost land following its aggressive wars.
Ah, so you do admit that Israel is a lot like Nazi Germany. Thanks for the admission.
Your reading comp is zilch. I said Germany LOST land. Thus, it was similar to Egypt.
But they took land before the lost it; isn't that correct?
It is hilarious that Hamas wants the world to curb Israili retaliation.
AIM MILITANT GROUP TARGETS ISRAEL
Rocket lands next to day care
No children hurt, but frantic parents pull their kids out of school
YANIV ZOHAR
Associated Press
SDEROT, Israel --A Palestinian rocket landed in a courtyard next to a crowded day care center on Monday, sending panicked mothers scrambling to take their screaming toddlers to safety and bringing warnings of retribution from Israeli leaders.
None of the 15 children at the center was hurt. But frantic parents in Sderot -- already furious over the government's failure to protect them and their children from the near-daily rocket fire -- pulled their children out of schools on the second day of the academic year.
It was unclear when studies would resume.
The army said seven rockets were fired Monday morning at Sderot, a frequently targeted city just a mile from the Gaza Strip. Islamic Jihad, a radical Palestinian militant group that has fired hundreds of rockets into Israel in recent years, claimed responsibility.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel would show no restraint in its efforts to stem the attacks from Gaza.
"We will not limit ourselves" he told a news conference in Jerusalem, adding that Israel would "do everything to provide better security for the residents (of Sderot)."
The military carries out almost daily ground and air strikes aimed at rocket-launching squads in northern Gaza, but the crude rockets continue to baffle the high-tech military.
Hamas spokesman Taher Nunu called for the international community to prevent Israeli reprisals.
Advocate wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:Advocate wrote:Israel took it as a prize of war. You may recall that Egypt attacked Israel in three wars. It is similar to when Germany lost land following its aggressive wars.
Ah, so you do admit that Israel is a lot like Nazi Germany. Thanks for the admission.
Your reading comp is zilch. I said Germany LOST land. Thus, it was similar to Egypt.
Germany lost land to the Soviet Union. Poland was "moved" to the west. Stalin took the land as a prize of war.
I don't see why you would want to compare Israel to a Stalinist dictatorship, though.
old europe wrote:Advocate wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:Advocate wrote:Israel took it as a prize of war. You may recall that Egypt attacked Israel in three wars. It is similar to when Germany lost land following its aggressive wars.
Ah, so you do admit that Israel is a lot like Nazi Germany. Thanks for the admission.
Your reading comp is zilch. I said Germany LOST land. Thus, it was similar to Egypt.
Germany lost land to the Soviet Union. Poland was "moved" to the west. Stalin took the land as a prize of war.
I don't see why you would want to compare Israel to a Stalinist dictatorship, though.
Because, don't you know OE that Israel is special and no name calling is allowed lest you be labelled an anti-semite?
I think thats what gets my dander up more than anything with this whole Israel vs. Arabs thing, is the special treatment the advocates of Israel (namely the US) gets in the PR department. It just irks me something furious. I mean the way media and those on message boards go on about it; it is almost like they are talking about something holy or something.
It is good to see some good common sense in the ME.
Last update - 10:13 16/09/2007
Repay Gaza in kind
By Yehuda Ben Meir
The Israeli government's policy toward Gaza is fundamentally flawed. For some reason, it has not internalized the dramatic change in the status of the Gaza Strip since the August 2005 disengagement and the June 2007 Hamas military putsch and takeover of the territory. When I read that the government is consulting with the Israel Defense Forces' International Law Division about whether it is permissible to cut off electricity to Gaza - that is, to a hostile entity that has declared war on Israel - I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This could well serve as another example of the exaggerated role of the judiciary, which is taking over our lives and threatening to paralyze the ability of the government's branches to operate.
The basic solution to the Qassam plague is not to conquer Gaza. Neither does it lie in inventing brilliant technologies. The last thing the IDF needs is to turn into a police force controlling a million and a half Gazans. For every missile there is an anti-missile; and for every anti-missile, an anti-anti-missile will be invented. From the dawn of history, a defense has been found for every innovation in attack techniques, and a breach has been found in every defense. The answer for the Qassams is, and has always been, the proven and familiar response for countering any aggressive intent - that is, deterrence and a crushing response "in kind." This is the only response that has proven itself over the years."
Syria does not launch missiles against Israel - not because Bashar Assad is a disciple of Aaron, but because he fears Israel's response. Hassan Nasrallah does not use the thousands of missiles in Hezbollah's arsenal - not because he has pangs of conscience, but because he fears a similar response to the one he encountered last year, when he was compelled to apologize to his fellow countrymen and explain that he would not have abducted the two IDF soldiers had he known that Israel's response would be so severe. Today, there is no need to differentiate between Syria and Gaza, or between Hezbollah and Hamas.
The argument that Israel is prohibited from striking against civilian targets or assets in Gaza as a response to the wild aggression unleashed against it is a baseless fabrication. No country acts in this manner - not during World War II, not prior to it and not subsequent to it. Throughout the Cold War, the West's doctrine consisted of -mutually assured destruction' and this premise saved the free world from the brutal Soviet regime. President Kennedy threatened that if even one missile were fired from Cuba against any target in the Western hemisphere, the U.S. would strike at the Soviet Union with all the power at its disposal. And the intention was not to hit Soviet military bases, but cities like Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. In the Kosovo war, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) not the U.S. alone, but NATO, including the hypocritical countries in Western Europe attacked all of Serbia's civilian infrastructure for weeks, bombing embassies and killing hundreds of civilians, until Slobodan Milosevic was forced to surrender.
Israel is entitled not only to cut off Gaza's electricity, but also to hit every power plant in Gaza because the electricity is used to operate the lathes that produce the Qassam rockets. Israel is entitled to destroy all the bridges and roads in Gaza because they are used to transport the Qassams that are launched against Israeli citizens. And Israel is entitled to strike against the institutions and facilities of the Hamas government that stands behind the launching of Qassams. This is how any normal country would behave and this is how the State of Israel should also act until Khaled Meshal apologizes to the Palestinians and explains that he would not have allowed Islamic Jihad to launch Qassams at Sderot or Zikim if he had known that Israel would respond in this manner.
Advocate wrote:It is good to see some good common sense in the ME.
Last update - 10:13 16/09/2007
Repay Gaza in kind
By Yehuda Ben Meir
The Israeli government's policy toward Gaza is fundamentally flawed. For some reason, it has not internalized the dramatic change in the status of the Gaza Strip since the August 2005 disengagement and the June 2007 Hamas military putsch and takeover of the territory. When I read that the government is consulting with the Israel Defense Forces' International Law Division about whether it is permissible to cut off electricity to Gaza - that is, to a hostile entity that has declared war on Israel - I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This could well serve as another example of the exaggerated role of the judiciary, which is taking over our lives and threatening to paralyze the ability of the government's branches to operate.
The basic solution to the Qassam plague is not to conquer Gaza. Neither does it lie in inventing brilliant technologies. The last thing the IDF needs is to turn into a police force controlling a million and a half Gazans. For every missile there is an anti-missile; and for every anti-missile, an anti-anti-missile will be invented. From the dawn of history, a defense has been found for every innovation in attack techniques, and a breach has been found in every defense. The answer for the Qassams is, and has always been, the proven and familiar response for countering any aggressive intent - that is, deterrence and a crushing response "in kind." This is the only response that has proven itself over the years."
Syria does not launch missiles against Israel - not because Bashar Assad is a disciple of Aaron, but because he fears Israel's response. Hassan Nasrallah does not use the thousands of missiles in Hezbollah's arsenal - not because he has pangs of conscience, but because he fears a similar response to the one he encountered last year, when he was compelled to apologize to his fellow countrymen and explain that he would not have abducted the two IDF soldiers had he known that Israel's response would be so severe. Today, there is no need to differentiate between Syria and Gaza, or between Hezbollah and Hamas.
The argument that Israel is prohibited from striking against civilian targets or assets in Gaza as a response to the wild aggression unleashed against it is a baseless fabrication. No country acts in this manner - not during World War II, not prior to it and not subsequent to it. Throughout the Cold War, the West's doctrine consisted of -mutually assured destruction' and this premise saved the free world from the brutal Soviet regime. President Kennedy threatened that if even one missile were fired from Cuba against any target in the Western hemisphere, the U.S. would strike at the Soviet Union with all the power at its disposal. And the intention was not to hit Soviet military bases, but cities like Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. In the Kosovo war, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) not the U.S. alone, but NATO, including the hypocritical countries in Western Europe attacked all of Serbia's civilian infrastructure for weeks, bombing embassies and killing hundreds of civilians, until Slobodan Milosevic was forced to surrender.
Israel is entitled not only to cut off Gaza's electricity, but also to hit every power plant in Gaza because the electricity is used to operate the lathes that produce the Qassam rockets. Israel is entitled to destroy all the bridges and roads in Gaza because they are used to transport the Qassams that are launched against Israeli citizens. And Israel is entitled to strike against the institutions and facilities of the Hamas government that stands behind the launching of Qassams. This is how any normal country would behave and this is how the State of Israel should also act until Khaled Meshal apologizes to the Palestinians and explains that he would not have allowed Islamic Jihad to launch Qassams at Sderot or Zikim if he had known that Israel would respond in this manner.
Well, why stop with completely destroying the country?
Why not just chuck all the Palestinians into a furnace and have done with it?
It's amazing to me how many history lessons have been forgotten by modern Zionists.
Cycloptichorn
Lets see how long this lasts...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3449858,00.html
Quote:Palestinian armed groups in the Gaza Strip agreed on Sunday to stop firing rockets towards Israel, a Palestinian official told Ynet.
The official said the agreement was the fruit of talks between the dismissed Hamas government and representatives of armed groups responsible for daily rocket attacks against the Jewish state.
Quote:The official said that Palestinian groups had agreed not to renew rocket fire unless Israel carried out targeted assassinations against senior gunmen.
Turdmeister, I mean MM, Hamas is only calling for a tactical truce to prevent Israel's just and, probable, massive retaliation. It will be interesting to see what is Israel's decision.
