ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Irgun Zva'i Le'umi didn't only bomb the King David Hotel, though.

Its very first act of terrorism was perpetrated on March 14,
1937 by Arieh Ytzhaki and Benjamin Zeroni, both Polish
immigrants to Palestine when it bombed an Arab coffee house in Azur.

One of their trademark methods was to hide time bombs in milk cans and plant them in Arab markets.

OE, please don't quote me incorrectly. I didn't comment on the legality of anything.

CI, OE gave his answer. What is yours? Since you also requested an answer from me, you should be willing to give yours.

Infra, at the time of the bombing, the Arabs and Jews were in a hot war, with each mounting attacks. But you conveniently failed to mention this.

I echo old europe's answer that best reflects my position on this matter.

Now, it's your turn.

Uhm.... Yes, you did. You said



(emphasis added)

Here's your post: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2798071#2798071

-------------

Now waiting for your answer.....

OE, you are right about my prior statement on legality. I forgot what I said.

Regarding your absurd question, the two situations are nonanalogous. When the hotel was attacked, there was an internal war in progress, with the Jews and Brits pitted against each other, in an area with no recognized country. Thus, the attack on the military headquarters was legal. Hezbollah made an unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country. That is indecent and illegal under UN rules. It is similar to Bush's invasion of Iraq under false pretences.

Rabin's Murder Rooted in Zionism's Violent Legacy In a famous letter to The New York Times in 1948, Albert Einstein called the Irgun "a terrorist, rightwing, chauvinist organization" that stood for "ultranationalism, religious mysticism and racial superiority."6 He opposed Begin's visit to the United States in 1949 because Begin and his movement amounted to "a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a 'leader state' is the goal," adding:


At the core of Revisionist Zionism there existed a philosophical embrace of violence.

Seems to happen occasionally.



I know that the two situations are different. In one case, 91 people, including numerous civilians, got killed. In the other case, 2 soldiers got kidnapped.

But I'm trying to get some kind of general rule from you. You're now saying that the kidnapping should be illegal because it violated UN regulations.
In that case, I still don't see why the King David Hotel bombing should be okay. Terrorist attacks during a civil war are also "indecent and illegal under UN rules."

Can you tell us what kind of yardstick we could use to determine whether or not a specific act was legal or illegal?

Here's mine: terrorist attacks are illegal. Where's yours?

So, you're saying that terrorism is legitimate and valid under certain circimstances?

CI, it is precious how you rely on pro-Palestinian sources. What the hell can you expect but one-sided anti-Israel material.

Neff writes for The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. Wikipedia says:


The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs is a magazine published 9 times per year in Washington, D.C. that "focuses on news and analysis from and about the Middle East and U.S. policy in that region."[1] Critics have described it as anti-Israel.

OE, I am sometimes wrong. You are wrong about 95% of the time.

You must've missed what Albert Einstein called the irgun. He was probably just another Jew-hater.

On the other hand, we could try to get some kind of general rule from what you said here:




So how about this for a general rule:

If there is some kind of internal conflict in progress, with two factions fighting each other, in an area that is not a recognized country, then terrorist attacks by members of the occupied territory against military targets of the occupying force are okay.

You think so? Okay. Prove it.

MARK YOUR CALENDAR FOR NEXT SATURDAY.
As you may already know, it is a sin for a Muslim male to see
any woman other than his wife naked, and that he must commit suicide
if he does.
.
So next Saturday at 4 PM. (16:00) Eastern Time all American women are
asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any
neighborhood terrorists.
.
Circling your block for one hour is recommended for this anti-terrorist
effort.
All men are to position themselves in lawn chairs in front of
their house to prove they are not Muslims, and to demonstrate they
think it's okay to see nude women other than their wife and to show
support for all American women.
.
Since Islam also does not approve of alcohol, a cold 6-pack at
your side is further proof of your anti-Muslim sentiment.
.
The American government appreciates your efforts to root
out terrorists and applauds your participation in this anti-terrorist
activity.

Advocate,

What would be your reaction if someone here were to post something equivalent to your post above, but this time about Jews?

Was this just a crude attempt to divert the thread from old europe's question?

It is funny you would ask that. I would be much less offended than by your vicious lies about Israel and its Jewish supporters.

That was about as meaningful as your non-answers to old europe's questions.

Is there any level to which you will not stoop?

Advocate, It seems you missed an important part of the NYT article, so I'll repeat here for you to read.

In a famous letter to The New York Times in 1948, Albert Einstein called the Irgun "a terrorist, rightwing, chauvinist organization" that stood for "ultranationalism, religious mysticism and racial superiority."6 He opposed Begin's visit to the United States in 1949 because Begin and his movement amounted to "a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a 'leader state' is the goal," adding:

At the core of Revisionist Zionism there existed a philosophical embrace of violence.

What is your opinion about Albert Einstein? But some of us would like you to answer old europe's question first. We're all still waiting.

CI, thanks for the info about Einstein. Do you have a cite? BTW, do you feel that he was always right about everything? I don't.

Advcoate, You have made the claim that old europe is wrong most of the time. WRONG! You now also say that Einstein was not alway right. No shite! But it would seem at this point that your opinion about other people's being right and wrong are highly questionable. It's about credibility.

Tell us why Einstein's statement is wrong. Not whether he isn't always right.

Are you saying that your opinion is more right?

Albert Einstein letter
New York Times, December 4, 1948



TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:
New Palestine Party Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed
Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Beginâs political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.
Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Beginâs behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.
The public avowals of Beginâs party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.
Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants÷240 men, women, and children÷and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.
Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.
During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.
The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.
Discrepancies Seen
The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.
In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Beginâs efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.
The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.
ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ, HANNAH ARENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO, ALBERT EINSTEIN, HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D., H.H. HARRIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOK, FRED KARUSH, BRURIA KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LINDHEIM, NACHMAN MAISEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY, SAMUEL PITLICK, FRITZ ROHRLICH, LOUIS P. ROCKER, RUTH SAGIS, ITZHAK SANKOWSKY, I.J. SHOENBERG, SAMUEL SHUMAN, M. SINGER, IRMA WOLFE, STEFAN WOLFE.
New York, Dec. 2, 1948