ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

ican711nm wrote:

It is a fact that:
(1) That Arabs in Palestine neither ruled nor governed any part of Palestine between the years 1187 and 1949;
(2) In 1947, the British delegated to the UN the solving of their Palestine mandate problem;
(3) The UN resolved that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jew state;
(4) The Jews in Palestine in 1948 declared Israel their own independent state;
(5) There are over a million Arabs living in Israel;
(6) Since the 1967 war Israel has been expanding into the lands it conquered in the 1967 war;
(7) More than once Israel has successfully traded for peace some of the land it conquered in 1967.

I'll agree with all that. In #6 you acknowledge that Israel has been illegally expanding into the occupied territories.

I never said Israel's expansion was illegal. Why do you think it illegal to expand into comquered land?

However Israel has added no new citizens from those seized territories. This is, of course a result of their ethnic cleasnsing of the selected lands - together comprising a large portion of the West Bank. This is regarded as a crime against humanity by the international community and the UN.

By the term "ethnic cleansing of the selected lands" do you mean moving people from the selected lands to other locations? If that's what you mean, then yes that's what Israel has been doing. Specifically, what laws do you think Israel is violating by doing that?

The only land for peace deal I can recall is the one Israel concluded with Egypt. In this Israel returned largely unoccupied lands in the Siani to its rightful owner, in exchange for a peace treaty that both parties have largely observed. The United States is still paying bribes totaling about $10 Billion/year the parties to this treaty as an informal part of the deal.

The only other I know about is their land for peace deal with Jordan

None of this has anything to do with the illegal and unhumane treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories, who have lived without basic rights under often capricious Israeli military rule for more than forty years now. Israel has made it impossible for a responsible government with meaningful powers to arise in the occupied territories and has cynically used the resulting "failure to acknowledge Israel's right to exist" as the excuse for their systematic and continuing ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and illegal absorbtion of selected territories into Israel. There is no progress towards peace - instead the situation has gotten worse with each succeeding year.

I agree with this excluding your phrase "illegal absorbtion of selected territories into Israel." I might agree with that too if you could show me the specifict law or laws that makes that illegal.

Advocate: There was no ethnic cleansing by Israel. Settlers moved into land that was not occupied. No Pals were forced out of Palestine.



I'm afraid Advocate has now gone "over the hill" to never-never land. He will not allow himself to admit he's on the wrong side of this argument.

THE PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN
A position statement by Palestine Information Project and Palestine Solidarity Committee/Seattle

In 1947-9 and in 1967, over one million Palestinians were driven out of their homes by force or threat of force.

Currently, over four million Palestinian refugees and their descendants live outside the state of Israel. Of these, 1.2 million are in 59 refugee camps in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and the Occupied Territories. 620,000 refugees live in the Occupied Territories. Another 250,000 Palestinians are internally displaced inside Israel, living in 100 unrecognized villages with no access to water or electrical services. Of these, only about 14,000 have received any compensation from the Israeli government for property loss.
...

This situation exists because a significant percentage of Palestinian Arabs refuse to grant Israel the right to exist, because some Palestinian Arabs mass murdered Jews in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000 - 2007, and because the Jews in Israel fear what these Arabs may do if they are welcomed into Israel without granting Israel the right to exist.

ican711nm wrote:

This situation exists because a significant percentage of Palestinian Arabs refuse to grant Israel the right to exist, because some Palestinian Arabs mass murdered Jews in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000 - 2007, and because the Jews in Israel fear what these Arabs may do if they are welcomed into Israel without granting Israel the right to exist.

ican,

do you have any sources for the "significant percentage of Palestinian Arabs" that doesn't want to grant Israel a right to exist? Any studies, numbers...?

http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2006/p21ejoint.html

(D) Other Conflict Resolution Issues

• 67% Of the Palestinians do not believe Hamas should recognize the state of Israel in order to meet international donor demands. But 63% would support a Palestinian recognition of Israel as a state for the Jewish people after a peace agreement is reached, a Palestinians state is established, and all issues in dispute, including the refugees and Jerusalem, are settled.
• While 57% of the Palestinians support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel and while 57% believe that armed confrontations have helped Palestinians achieve national rights in ways that negotiations could not, 77% support the call for a ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinians and 22% oppose it.
• 62% Of the Palestinians have not heard of Olmert's realignment plan to evacuate most of the West Bank settlements while realigning into large blocks of settlements along the line of the separation barrier. 70% do not welcome Olmert's plan and only 20% believe it will be implemented. But 75% believe that the evacuation of the settlements in the Gaza Strip was a victory for armed struggle.

Why doesn't anyone ask CI for his sources.

BTW, how much has been paid by the Pals in compensation for the many Jews killed by them? It is ZERO!

Here's some:

The Palestinian data are a joke. No respected commentator gives them any credit.

The Palestinian data are a joke. No respected commentator gives them any credit.