ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

the problems in the ME go back a long time .
we shouldn't forget that the arab people were promised control over their lands for siding with the allies during WW I to try and defeat the ottoman empire .
of course , that was forgotten after WW I ended .

i highly recommend the book : " the missing peace" by dennis ross ;
ross was u.s. envoy to the middle east under both pres bush senior and pres clinton (1988-2000).

ross writes that the arabs believed that for their labours they would be given "all their lands" , as promised by the british high commisioner ,
sir henry mcmahon , but they weren't even allowed to set their own borders .

just want to add a small excerpt from his book 840 ( Shocked

) pages :
when pres roosevelt met king ibn saud , he tried to persuade him that the sufferings of the jews should make the arabs open and hospitable to the jews . the king replied : " make the enemy and oppressor pay ... what injury have the arabs done to the jews of europe ?"
but the arabs (palistinians) were the ones who lost their homes and had to suffer .
of course , arafat didn't exactly help the palistinian course either , but i think one should back up a little and see where all this started . it didn't just start with the rockets from hizbolla ...

(btw dennis ross is a practicing jew - which didn't endear him to the arabs OR the israelis !)
hbg

...THE MISSING PEACE...

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dyslexia wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Some might find the following interesting:

Quote:
The key steps to ending the violence in Lebanon first requires recognizing that Hezbollah in its military form must be eliminated, that the 100-plus Iranian guard in southern Lebanon must be removed and that the allowing of the Syrian and Iranian dictatorships to supply, train and equip the terrorists must be stopped.

To do that, the United States should offer to help strengthen the Lebanese government so that it has the ability to re-establish itself in all of Lebanon and defeat the military wing of Hezbollah. We should encourage the Israelis to work with the Lebanese government to eliminate the thousands of missiles within its borders that threaten Israel. Finally, Iran and Syria must be forced to cease their support of Hezbollah and Hamas by the United States communicating to them such dire consequences that they could not sustain the relationships. And then we should be prepared, if necessary, to impose those consequences.

SOURCE

I find it interesting that the US of A (george bush) has done nothing but de-strenghten the Lebonanse govenment and may well cause the total collapse of the current Lebonanese govenerment resulting in more chaos for the mid-east. This, in my opinon, is the worst fukup of the Bush Administration. But i am not so wise as to this geo-politcial plan as foxfyre as I only lived there and not doubt she has better knowledge having been a bible-school teacher.

"De-strengthen?" Is that anything like "weaken?"

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listening to hamburger...

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gungasnake wrote:

Those clowns were CLEARLY not keeping any sort of peace or this whole thing would never have happened. Referring to them as "peacekeepers" is dishonest.

Besides that they were send there by the USA as well - calling someone a "clown" when he is killed doing that what he is supposed to do - "obseving", I'd really like some whta read the mission of UNIFIL - is not only inhuman but shows a lot of some people's ethics and morality.

But, yes, killed UN-personal from Austria, Canada, China, and Finland are just clowns, dead clowns, though. Crying or Very sad

Even Israel officially showed "deep regret" for the deaths and Olmert said the peacekeepers were killed mistakenly.

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Maybe they should get out of the war zone, Israel is ramping up their attack...more accidents are bound to happen.

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Brand X wrote:

Maybe they should get out of the war zone, Israel is ramping up their attack...more accidents are bound to happen.

Quite peculiar funny opinion: UNIFIL is there to obeserve ... and they should get out?

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Maybe they should get out of the war zone, Israel is ramping up their attack...more accidents are bound to happen.

Quite peculiar funny opinion: UNIFIL is there to obeserve ... and they should get out?

Peculiar that Kofi automatically accuses Israel of targeting them on purpose, and I don't care what they are doing there, it's a war zone so Kofi or no one else should be surprised if there are some accidental deaths.

"UNIFIL said there had been at least 14 incidents of fire close to the post since Tuesday afternoon." Did they get a clue and move? No, now some of them are dead. Stupid.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Maybe they should get out of the war zone, Israel is ramping up their attack...more accidents are bound to happen.

Quite peculiar funny opinion: UNIFIL is there to obeserve ... and they should get out?

They are billed as "peace keepers". If their only role is to observe and not keep the peace or even report that the peace is in serious peril by Hezbollah stocking thousands of rockets aimed at Israel, then what good are they? Yes, they should get out. Or at least somebody else should pay to keep them there. We have taxpayer dollars paying for far too much stuff that isn't accomplishing a darn thing as it is.

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Foxfyre wrote:

They are billed as "peace keepers". If their only role is to observe and not keep the peace or even report that the peace is in serious peril by Hezbollah stocking thousands of rockets aimed at Israel, then what good are they? Yes, they should get out.

This camp has only been for observation - omitted even by the Israelis.
You have got your different view from what sources?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Maybe they should get out of the war zone, Israel is ramping up their attack...more accidents are bound to happen.

Quite peculiar funny opinion: UNIFIL is there to obeserve ... and they should get out?

They are billed as "peace keepers". If their only role is to observe and not keep the peace or even report that the peace is in serious peril by Hezbollah stocking thousands of rockets aimed at Israel, then what good are they? Yes, they should get out. We have taxpayer dollars paying for far too much stuff that isn't accomplishing a darn thing as it is.

It's reported that this was a rescue team, either way they were trying to do their work in a war zone, an unfortunate incident, not a intended one like Kofi the idiot would have one believe.

Of course now he's screaming more than ever for a cease-fire, idiocy upon idiocy is what you get with him.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

They are billed as "peace keepers". If their only role is to observe and not keep the peace or even report that the peace is in serious peril by Hezbollah stocking thousands of rockets aimed at Israel, then what good are they? Yes, they should get out.

This camp has only been for observation - omitted even by the Israelis.
You have got your different view from what sources?

I'm saying IF Walter. You're the one who says they're just there to observe. What are they to observe? Are they not to also see? To report what they see? They obviously didn't. They should get out or be there on somebody else's dime.

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Quote:

UNTSO has performed various tasks entrusted to it by the Security Council, including the supervision of the General Armistice Agreements of 1949 and the observation of the ceasefire in the Suez Canal area and the Golan Heights following the Arab-Israeli war of June 1967.

At present, UNTSO assists and cooperates with the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) on the Golan Heights in the Israel-Syria sector, and the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) in the Israel-Lebanon sector. UNTSO is also present in the Egypt-Israel sector in the Sinai. UNTSO maintains offices in Beirut and Damascus.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:

They are billed as "peace keepers". If their only role is to observe and not keep the peace or even report that the peace is in serious peril by Hezbollah stocking thousands of rockets aimed at Israel, then what good are they? Yes, they should get out.

This camp has only been for observation - omitted even by the Israelis.
You have got your different view from what sources?

I'm saying IF Walter. You're the one who says they're just there to observe. What are they to observe? Are they not to also see? To report what they see? They obviously didn't. They should get out or be there on somebody else's dime.

It's the same observing performance as was instituted in the Congo as they observed massacres going on but said nothing, or at least Kofi said nothing.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:
UNTSO has performed various tasks entrusted to it by the Security Council, including the supervision of the General Armistice Agreements of 1949 and the observation of the ceasefire in the Suez Canal area and the Golan Heights following the Arab-Israeli war of June 1967.

At present, UNTSO assists and cooperates with the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) on the Golan Heights in the Israel-Syria sector, and the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) in the Israel-Lebanon sector. UNTSO is also present in the Egypt-Israel sector in the Sinai. UNTSO maintains offices in Beirut and Damascus.

Again my question: from what source do you know that they are "billed" as peacekeepers?

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
UNTSO has performed various tasks entrusted to it by the Security Council, including the supervision of the General Armistice Agreements of 1949 and the observation of the ceasefire in the Suez Canal area and the Golan Heights following the Arab-Israeli war of June 1967.

At present, UNTSO assists and cooperates with the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) on the Golan Heights in the Israel-Syria sector, and the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) in the Israel-Lebanon sector. UNTSO is also present in the Egypt-Israel sector in the Sinai. UNTSO maintains offices in Beirut and Damascus.

Again my question: from what source do you know that they are "billed" as peacekeepers?

Here ya go, Walter.....the very first hit when I did a quick search:

UNIFIL Peace Keepers Find It Hard to Fulfill Their Mandate
By Julie Stahl
CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
January 21, 2005

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - United Nations peacekeepers stationed along Lebanon's southern border are not fulfilling their mandate -- but ultimately it is up to Lebanon and Syria to put a halt to Hizballah activities, a senior Israeli army officer said.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan recommended on Thursday that the mandate of the United Nations Interim Forces in Lebanon (UNIFIL) be extended for another six months until July 31, 2005.

In his periodic report, Annan said that between July 2004 and late January 2005 there were few violent incidents, nevertheless "tensions between the parties did not at any point appreciably diminish."

According to Annan, "hostile rhetoric remained the norm and stability continued to be threatened" by events that occurred in January.

On January 9, Hizballah detonated an explosive device, killing an Israeli soldier and wounding three others. (This was the day of presidential elections in the Palestinian Authority.) A French U.N. military observer was killed and a Swedish colleague wounded in an Israeli retaliatory attack.

On Jan. 17, another Hizballah explosive device was detonated on the Israeli side of the U.N.'s so-called Blue Line separating Israel and Lebanon. There were no injuries in that explosion, but two Lebanese civilians reportedly were wounded in the Israeli response. . . .
MORE HERE

Now, answer my questions, please.

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Brand X wrote:

It's the same observing performance as was instituted in the Congo as they observed massacres going on but said nothing, or at least Kofi said nothing.

According to all what I know and to all sources I could get, all manfdates for all UN troops in Lebanon/Israel/Middle East have different backgrounds than those in Congo had.

This leaves, of course, the question to what "performance" in Congo you are referring at. The actual now?

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Foxfyre wrote:

CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
January 21, 2005

I wasn't referring to what happened in January 2005. And actually only tangetially to UNIFIL.

I was referring to the four (4)observers killed just recently, one Austrian, one Canadian, one Chinese and one from Finland, to make it clear.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brand X wrote:

It's the same observing performance as was instituted in the Congo as they observed massacres going on but said nothing, or at least Kofi said nothing.

According to all what I know and to all sources I could get, all manfdates for all UN troops in Lebanon/Israel/Middle East have different backgrounds than those in Congo had.

This leaves, of course, the question to what "performance" in Congo you are referring at. The actual now?

I don't know where they were from, and I don't care, they are under the same authority. If it matters to you..one of the rescue members killed was Chinese.

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More sources for Walter

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/18/ukofi.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/18/ixnews.html

http://www.lebanon.com/news/local/1997/1/20.htm

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/publications/cq/v6/n1/weisaeth.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/world/middleeast/19lebanon.html?ex=1310961600&en=b910a9aa98623022&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
January 21, 2005

I wasn't referring to what happened in January 2005. And actually only tangetially to UNIFIL.

I was referring to the four (4)observers killed just recently, one Austrian, one Canadian, one Chinese and one from Finland, to make it clear.

You objected to me saying they were supposed to be 'peace keepers'. Show me where their mandate changed since 2005.

And then please answer my questions. I did you the courtesy of answering yours.

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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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