ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Foxfyre wrote:

How many accounts can you find of Christians methodically killing Jews now? And how many accounts can you find of Arabs methodically killing Jews now?

You mean recent times like 60 years ago?

Foxfyre wrote:

Bernard's post of Senator Inhofe's speech contains a lot of useful information that should give some of you anti-Israel types at least pause for thought. Israel does not have the right to claim the land because they once lived there. Israel has the right to the land because it was provided to them by a U.N. resolution and was legally handed over by the Brits who had possession of the land and willingly relinquished it.

The Brits did not have the right to give that land to the Jews any more than we would have the right to give land in Iraq to the Jews. The land should have remained with the people living on that land, both Arab and Jew. To allow Jews from all over the world to enter that land and remove the Muslims living there is wrong. To discriminate against them in the same manner we discriminated against the black people is wrong.

Had the UN and the Brits not given the land to create the state of Israel I think the Middle East would be a lot more peaceful today and a lot of lives not lost.

Foxfyre wrote:

Israel has made the land flourish and their policies--their policies NOW--are the most democratic and inclusive of any that you can find anywhere in the Middle East. Those Arabs willing to live peacefully within Israel are afforded the exact same liberties and opportunities that are afforded all Israeli citizens.

How do we know the land could not have flourished and have a democracy if we didn't allow the Zionist to come in and take it? Are you a prophet?

Foxfyre wrote:

And yet much of the Arab world has clearly expressed that there will be no more Israel if they have their way.

A reaction to the brutal policies of the Jewish state.

Foxfyre wrote:

I'll repeat an earlier post:

If the Arabs lay down their arms today, there will be no more violence.

If the Israelis lay down their arms today, there will be no more Israel.

As long as Israel treats the Muslim people the way they do there will never be peace. The Muslims are to strong in their religion to surrender to what they see as infidels.

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xingu, so true your reply to foxfyre.

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Well Xingu, I will respectfully disagree. Would you say the Jews should be able to go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, etc. where they were evicted and denied their property and a homeland regardless of who is living there now? Or is compensation for their property, inconvenience, loss of family members provided by at least Germany sufficient to compensate them?

Yet you don't see the Jews committing mayhem in Europe or even stating that the Germans and Poles and Russians who seized their property as having no right to exist. Do the Jews have a right of return there?

What you anti-Israel folks won't ever admit is that the Jews give the peaceful Arabs full rights of citizenship, property rights, legal protection, and a voice in the government. Israel is a shining oasis of freedom of thought and human rights in an ocean of human regression and repression. And yet some of you would still see Israel as the villains.

I just don't see the logic.

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"Well Xingu, I will respectfully disagree."

Interesting.

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Where in Germany have Jews been "evicted and denied their property and a homeland regardless of who is living there now"? (Or do you mean the period between 1935/1938 and 1945?)

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"I just don't see"

more to the point.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Yet you don't see the Jews committing mayhem in Europe or even stating that the Germans and Poles and Russians who seized their property as having no right to exist. Do the Jews have a right of return there?

For Germany: yes. Since 1949, since the Federal Republic of Germany excists.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I just don't see the logic.

You don't see the logic because you believe this;

Foxfyre wrote:

What you anti-Israel folks won't ever admit is that the Jews give the peaceful Arabs full rights of citizenship, property rights, legal protection, and a voice in the government.

In previous posts I have shown you that this is not true. Giving people rights in name only, as we did the blacks in the first half of the 20th century, is not the same as having those rights in practice. But if you want to believe it's true then you will never understand why the Muslims hate the Jews.

As long as the pro-Jewish side insist on seeing the picture from the Jewish side of the fence and not the Muslims side they will never understand what is happening. They will simply say the Muslims are wrong and evil.

That's what ignorance and a lack of empathy does.

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xingu wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
I just don't see the logic.

You don't see the logic because you believe this;

Foxfyre wrote:
What you anti-Israel folks won't ever admit is that the Jews give the peaceful Arabs full rights of citizenship, property rights, legal protection, and a voice in the government.

In previous posts I have shown you that this is not true. Giving people rights in name only, as we did the blacks in the first half of the 20th century, is not the same as having those rights in practice. But if you want to believe it's true then you will never understand why the Muslims hate the Jews.

As long as the pro-Jewish side insist on seeing the picture from the Jewish side of the fence and not the Muslims side they will never understand what is happening. They will simply say the Muslims are wrong and evil.

That's what ignorance and a lack of empathy does.

In previous posts I have provided ample proof that it is true including Israeli policy, copies of their constitution, and admissions from the Arabs themselves. I have all the empathy in the world for people who want nothing but to be left alone to live in peace. I have no empathy whatsoever for people who bomb crowded markets and busses full of school children. There is no way in hell you'll ever convince me that intentional bombing of markets and school busses for the express purpose of killing as many civilians as possible is justifiable.

Where is your empathy for that?

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Foxfyre wrote:

I have no empathy whatsoever for people who bomb crowded markets and busses full of school children. There is no way in hell you'll ever convince me that intentional bombing of markets and school busses for the express purpose of killing as many civilians as possible is justifiable.

Does that include only the Muslims that kill women and children or does your contempt extend to the Jews that kill women and children? Since the Jews are far more efficient at killing innocent women and children in Lebanon, Gaza and settlement camps than the Muslims one wonders why you don't vent some your spleen against the Jewish state as well?

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BernardR wrote:

Ican- Senator Inhofe has given a wonderful speech on the floor of the Senate outlining the rights of Israel. I will replicate it for you!
...

Thank you, Bernard! It is a wonderful speech.

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BernardR wrote:

...
The Israelis will never allow it to happen again. If the Islamo-fascists try to obliterate Israel, Teheran will be turned into a parking lot!!!

ican711nm wrote:

The Israelies have two choices:
1. flee Palestine;
2. risk their own destruction by defending themselves as best they can in the hope the Arabs will eventually come to tolerate Israel's existence.

The Arabs have two choices:
1. tolerate Israel's continued existence;
2. risk their own destruction by attempting to destroy Israel.

My inferences from all this is: the Israelies will persist in their choice 2, and the Arabs will persist in their choice 2, until the Palestinian Arabs are exterminated and/or all of Palestine is governed by the Israelies.

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ican

So...whaddya think about that book?

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xingu wrote:

...
As long as Israel treats the Muslim people the way they do there will never be peace. The Muslims are to[o] strong in their religion to surrender to what they see as infidels.

Quote:

The Muslims are to[o] strong in their religion to surrender to what they see as infidels.

I infer, xingu, you mean by this: The Muslims are too strong in their religion to tolerate the continuing existence of what they see as infidels. If what I infer is in fact, xingu, what you mean is true for Muslims, then you xingu are one of the IT.

IT = Islamo Totalitarians (e.g., Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al)

As long as IT treats the Israeli people the way they do there will be peace only when IT is exterminated.

On the other hand, if what you mean xingu is: the Muslims are too strong in their religion to surrender themselves to those they perceive as infidels, then all they have to do is stop making war on those they perceive to be infidels. Then they won't ever have to surrender themselves to those they perceive as infidels.

When IT bomb Israelies, the Israelies have and will continue to bomb those they think are the responsible IT. That will almost always include IT neighbors. Don't bomb or let your neighbors bomb Israelies, and Israelies will not bomb you.

By the way, the IT includes not only the IT bombers of Israelies but also the harborers of IT bombers.

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blatham wrote:

ican

So...whaddya think about that book?

Quote:

The Looming Towers
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/

I tried to access the link you provided to the book's review. Unfortunately, my ten year old computer is inadequate to load the video scanner it needs to access the book's video review.

I would appreciate you posting here your own summary of the book. Then, if I'm interested, I'll look at it in my local book store.

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ican

I haven't read it yet. Still working on "Fiasco". You can read the transcript of the interview with the book's author HERE

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The Plot Against America
August 6, 2006
The Plot Against America
Review by DEXTER FILKINS, a Baghdad correspondent for The New York Times.

When Mohamed Atta and his four Saudi confederates commandeered a Boeing 767 and steered it into the north tower of the World Trade Center, they began a story that still consumes us nearly five years on, and one that seems, on bad days, to promise war without end.

But the events of Sept. 11, 2001, were in many ways less the start of a tale than the end of one, or at least the climax of one, begun many years before in many different precincts: in the middle-class suburbs of Cairo, in the mosques of Hamburg, in Jidda, in Islamabad, in the quiet university town of Greeley, Colo.

In its simplest terms, this is the story of how a small group of men, with a frightening mix of delusion and calculation, rose from a tormented civilization to mount a catastrophic assault on the world's mightiest power, and how another group of men and women, convinced that such an attack was on the way, tried desperately to stop it.

What a story it is. And what a riveting tale Lawrence Wright fashions in this marvelous book. "The Looming Tower"

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Quote:

Most Iranians Support Decision to Continue Nuclear Program

As the fear of an American attack on Iran becomes stronger, people in Tehran support their president's decision to continue developing its nuclear energy program. NewsHour correspondent Margaret Warner reports on how Iranians view the nuclear issue.

SOURCE

This is what Bush's foreign policy does.

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xingu wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
I have no empathy whatsoever for people who bomb crowded markets and busses full of school children. There is no way in hell you'll ever convince me that intentional bombing of markets and school busses for the express purpose of killing as many civilians as possible is justifiable.

Does that include only the Muslims that kill women and children or does your contempt extend to the Jews that kill women and children? Since the Jews are far more efficient at killing innocent women and children in Lebanon, Gaza and settlement camps than the Muslims one wonders why you don't vent some your spleen against the Jewish state as well?

Please cite your credible sources that show how Israel bombs crowded Arab market places and school busses or has attacked any Arabs other than in self defense or in retaliation for Arab attacks such as bombing of crowded markets and busses filled with school children.

Take your time. I'll wait.

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Retaliation is not a valid reason to kill innocents, Fox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jenin_2002

Cycloptichorn

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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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