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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 08:03 am
xingu wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Any withdrawal on our part before victory is achieved will be interpreted as victory by the terrorists who will be emboldened to step up their activities and achieve more victories. They know they don't have to beat us. They only have to hold on long enough for the anti-victory forces within the United States to force retreat and thus self-imposed defeat. They know we have a track record of cutting and running whenever anybody really puts up any kind of fight. They count on it.

And failure to act at all will only reinforce their opinion that we are impotent wimps ripe for the picking. By them.


Then that leaves only one alternative, we will be there forever. We can't beat them. They have gotten stronger and the violence worse in Iraq in the last three years and Americans will not support Americans dying for Shiites and Iran, let alone all the hundreds of billions of dollars being blown on this war. Time is on the insurgents side and we don't have the strength to go outside of Iraq to fight anyone.

Our military forces are declining in quality (note the recent change in qualification standards), our equipment is being worn down and we're fighting in their backyard, on their turf. Anyway you look at it the best we can get is a stalemate, unless we stoop down to Saddam Hussein's level and just start killing everyone. Stalemates can last forever; remember Vietnam?


Or the alternative and better way is for the anti-victory forces to change their mind, get behind the President and military, and give them a green light and Good Housekeeping stamp of approval to do whatever is necessary to win this war. They will no longer be required to pull their punches or be second guessed and criticized for whatever property or collateral damage is done and they (and the terrorists) will be reminded daily that the American people are 100% behind them and cheering them on to victory. If our allies followed suit, it would expedite victory and peace that much sooner.


Had we done that in the first place, I honestly believe this thing would have essentially been over within the first year, many thousands of lives would have been spared, and the only troops we would have there now would be advisory as Iraq finishes training a new army and policy force and putting their Constitution into effect. If that was our normal M.O. from the beginning, I think we would have gone in with overwhelming force as we did in Desert Storm and we would have gotten the job done.

By 'we" I mean the entire coalition. I think most of us are way more timid and reticient than we used to be, and that as much as anything is empowering the world's terrorists to step up their efforts to conquer us all. I think the reason Israel did not achieve complete victory is that world opinion didn't want it to. And that is unfortunate as it prevents true peace from being attained.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 08:23 am
Foxfyre wrote:
xingu wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Any withdrawal on our part before victory is achieved will be interpreted as victory by the terrorists who will be emboldened to step up their activities and achieve more victories. They know they don't have to beat us. They only have to hold on long enough for the anti-victory forces within the United States to force retreat and thus self-imposed defeat. They know we have a track record of cutting and running whenever anybody really puts up any kind of fight. They count on it.

And failure to act at all will only reinforce their opinion that we are impotent wimps ripe for the picking. By them.


Then that leaves only one alternative, we will be there forever. We can't beat them. They have gotten stronger and the violence worse in Iraq in the last three years and Americans will not support Americans dying for Shiites and Iran, let alone all the hundreds of billions of dollars being blown on this war. Time is on the insurgents side and we don't have the strength to go outside of Iraq to fight anyone.

Our military forces are declining in quality (note the recent change in qualification standards), our equipment is being worn down and we're fighting in their backyard, on their turf. Anyway you look at it the best we can get is a stalemate, unless we stoop down to Saddam Hussein's level and just start killing everyone. Stalemates can last forever; remember Vietnam?


Or the alternative and better way is for the anti-victory forces to change their mind, get behind the President and military, and give them a green light and Good Housekeeping stamp of approval to do whatever is necessary to win this war. They will no longer be required to pull their punches or be second guessed and criticized for whatever property or collateral damage is done and they (and the terrorists) will be reminded daily that the American people are 100% behind them and cheering them on to victory.


Had we done that in the first place, I honestly believe this thing would have essentially been over within the first year, many thousands of lives would have been spared, and the only troops we would have there now would be advisory as Iraq finishes training a new army and policy force and putting their Constitution into effect. If that was our normal M.O. from the beginning, I think we would have gone in with overwhelming force as we did in Desert Storm and we would have gotten the job done.


The insurgents don't fight because of our public opinion. They fight for the same reason we would fight if we were invaded. They will continue to fight regardless of what Americans believe. They will fight because they are Muslims defending their homeland from infidel invaders who have killed their families. And yes we have killed a lot of their women and children.

The reason why this got out of hand has nothing to do with American opposition to Bush. It has to do with the lack of support for our troops, on one hand, and piss poor planning on the other. Bush failed to support our troops by not having enough men to accomplish the mission. The mission was not just to destroy Saddam's military forces but to stabilize the country and keep order after the invasion. We never had a plan for this and never had enough troops to do the job. Rumsfeld tried to run this war on the cheap and now Americans are dying because of it. The blame for this fiasco rests on this administration and the Commander in Chief, not some anti-war critics.

Got to go and pick beans and water my garden.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 08:28 am
For sure we needed more boots on the ground from the beginning, but this was a miscalculation, not willful disregard for the welfare of the troops. The insurgents are not fighting to expel the 'infidels'. They are fighting to prevent a free and democratic Iraq because they are Islamofacists who want control of the land and the people, both theirs and ours. And it is American public opinion that has prevented our troops from doing what it has to do to take them out.

That is the bottom line. We are just too decent to conduct an effective war these days. And that decency, if it does not prevent victory altogether which too often it does, will certainly prolong the hostilities, increase the casualties, and delay any possibility of peace.

Israel did not achieve an unconditional surrender in short order itself for the same reason, and this will almost certainly produce the same dismal results. And this is unfortunate.

And I have to get to work myself. Later all.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 08:42 am
x, you say that Israel totally destroyed the Lebanese people and country. Wow, don't you have any concern for your credibility?

You say that Israel had two goals: get back its two kidnapped soldiers and disarm Hez. Israel's leaders are not stupid, and knew that both of these things are essentially unobtainable. But it did beat up on Hez and the country, which may forestall another Hez invasion.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 08:49 am
xingu wrote:

The insurgents don't fight because of our public opinion. They fight for the same reason we would fight if we were invaded....


Bullshit. They fight for the same reason a few a$$holes amongst us would fight if Maxmoud Ahmadi-najad were paying paying THEM to instead of the Iraqi insurgents.

Moreover, the term "insurgents" has an implication of being home-grown and is obviously being misused here. The correct term is "mercenary".
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:08 am
Quote:
Inquiry Opened Into Israeli Use of U.S. Bombs


By DAVID S. CLOUD
Published: August 25, 2006

WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 - The State Department is investigating whether Israel's use of American-made cluster bombs in southern Lebanon violated secret agreements with the United States that restrict when it can employ such weapons, two officials said.

The investigation by the department's Office of Defense Trade Controls began this week, after reports that three types of American cluster munitions, anti-personnel weapons that spray bomblets over a wide area, have been found in many areas of southern Lebanon and were responsible for civilian casualties...

nytimes


This is complete horse pucky: this administration knew darned well precisely how the Israeli military were going to use these weapons. They're only embarassed that they had the "made in the USA" stamp on them when they were discovered unexploded.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:14 am
freedom4free wrote:
This is complete horse pucky: this administration knew darned well precisely how the Israeli military were going to use these weapons. They're only embarassed that they had the "made in the USA" stamp on them when they were discovered unexploded.


Of course this is merely your opinion, and you have nothing to back it up other than your -- or other's -- wild fantasies.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:15 am
Ehem, tico, I've posted a photo which such a bomb some time ago on one of the threads ...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:29 am
Xingu displays a good deal more concern for his credibility than do Fox and the members of her "innocent Israel" posse.

Fox has claimed that Hezbollah launched thousands of rockets before Isreal took "massive" military action, but can't provide any evidence for it, and has to quibble about and attempt to twist a definition of massive military action--and to lie. She lies about what those who disagree with her say, and she lies about what she has said (although her posts can be quoted). She lies about the number of air strikes the Israelis launched. But she's not the only one.

Ican't posts an article in which he enlarges and bold faces a passage about 400 rockets being launched in five days. That is not thousands of rockets, and Ican't ignores what is clearly written in that same article--that in the period specified:

Ican't's quoted source wrote:
In the last five days Hezbollah has fired about 400 rockets into Israel, killing at least 16 civilians.

Israel has killed at least 80 Lebanese civilians since Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed two others in a cross-border raid on Wednesday.

On Friday and Saturday the Israeli air force also struck several Hezbollah targets across Lebanon.


That's sixteen Israeli civilians as opposed to 80 Lebanese civilians, and that's several attacks as opposed to Fox's contention of "a few" air strikes.

Advocate re-writes history, claiming that Isreal has only ever acted in self-defense--ignoring that Israel invaded Egyptian territory in 1956, and that in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982 and 2000, Israel has driven people off their land, invaded the territory of her neighbors, seized territory and refused to give it back despite solemn diplomatic engagements to do so. These jokers ignore that Israel has consistently stolen water and mineral rights, and settled people on land which she had promised to return to the rightful owners.

In short, they ignore any evidence which does not support the chimera of "poor, innocent Israel," viciously attacked by her inhuman and terrorist neighbors.

I once considered the Isrealis admirable, their military invincible and their cause just. I laughed at the Arabs in 1967 along with almost all of the rest of Americans. But i've read too much history now, and done so without blinders. I've seen too many current events, too many news reports, not to recognize that Israel is at least as responsible for her woes as anyone people are pleased to brand a terrorist and dismiss.

Some of the motivation for the warped view which so many people in the United States is simple ignorance, such as Gunga with his hilariously uninformed remarks about history, and his vitriolic racist remarks against Muslims. Sometimes it is a more subtle, selective ignorance, such as Advocate's, which attempts to make simplistic claims about Israel's "right of self-defense" without a rigorous review of the events of the last sixty years, and Israel's responsibility in them. Some are motivated by their preferred, goofy religious superstition and a concommitant affection for Jews without reference to reality at all--which is what i suspect motivates Fox. Some are just ranting western imperialists, who will make things up, and hilariously mistate facts even when confronted with them, which is what appears to motivate Ican't.

Regardless the motivation, all these Israel apologists share a common trait--the inability to recognize simple truths which don't happen to be lost on the rest of the world. Israel makes a lethally dangerous bed and whines about being obliged to lie in it. And her American apologists repeat the whining and wailing in venues such as this.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:40 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Ehem, tico, I've posted a photo which such a bomb some time ago on one of the threads ...


Ahem, Walter .....

Did your photo show that the Bush Administration "knew darned well how the Israeli military were going to use" those bombs?

Did your photo show that the Bush Administration is "only embarrassed that they had the 'made in the USA' stamp on them when they were discovered unexploded"?

If it doesn't, then your photo does nothing to substantiate F4F's claims, does it?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:45 am
Setanta wrote:
Xingu displays a good deal more concern for his credibility than do Fox and the members of her "innocent Israel" posse.

Fox has claimed that Hezbollah launched thousands of rockets before Isreal took "massive" military action, but can't provide any evidence for it, and has to quibble about and attempt to twist a definition of massive military action--and to lie. She lies about what those who disagree with her say, and she lies about what she has said (although her posts can be quoted). She lies about the number of air strikes the Israelis launched. But she's not the only one.

Ican't posts an article in which he enlarges and bold faces a passage about 400 rockets being launched in five days. That is not thousands of rockets, and Ican't ignores what is clearly written in that same article--that in the period specified:

Ican't's quoted source wrote:
In the last five days Hezbollah has fired about 400 rockets into Israel, killing at least 16 civilians.

Israel has killed at least 80 Lebanese civilians since Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed two others in a cross-border raid on Wednesday.

On Friday and Saturday the Israeli air force also struck several Hezbollah targets across Lebanon.


That's sixteen Israeli civilians as opposed to 80 Lebanese civilians, and that's several attacks as opposed to Fox's contention of "a few" air strikes.

Advocate re-writes history, claiming that Isreal has only ever acted in self-defense--ignoring that Israel invaded Egyptian territory in 1956, and that in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982 and 2000, Israel has driven people off their land, invaded the territory of her neighbors, seized territory and refused to give it back despite solemn diplomatic engagements to do so. These jokers ignore that Israel has consistently stolen water and mineral rights, and settled people on land which she had promised to return to the rightful owners.

In short, they ignore any evidence which does not support the chimera of "poor, innocent Israel," viciously attacked by her inhuman and terrorist neighbors.

I once considered the Isrealis admirable, their military invincible and their cause just. I laughed at the Arabs in 1967 along with almost all of the rest of Americans. But i've read too much history now, and done so without blinders. I've seen too many current events, too many news reports, not to recognize that Israel is at least as responsible for her woes as anyone people are pleased to brand a terrorist and dismiss.

Some of the motivation for the warped view which so many people in the United States is simple ignorance, such as Gunga with his hilariously uninformed remarks about history, and his vitriolic racist remarks against Muslims. Sometimes it is a more subtle, selective ignorance, such as Advocate's, which attempts to make simplistic claims about Israel's "right of self-defense" without a rigorous review of the events of the last sixty years, and Israel's responsibility in them. Some are motivated by their preferred, goofy religious superstition and a concommitant affection for Jews without reference to reality at all--which is what i suspect motivates Fox. Some are just ranting western imperialists, who will make things up, and hilariously mistate facts even when confronted with them, which is what appears to motivate Ican't.

Regardless the motivation, all these Israel apologists share a common trait--the inability to recognize simple truths which don't happen to be lost on the rest of the world. Israel makes a lethally dangerous bed and whines about being obliged to lie in it. And her American apologists repeat the whining and wailing in venues such as this.
\

The only one who is lying is Setanta who keeps repeating the same lies over and over despite multiple posts illustrating his lies and misrepresentations of what others say so that he can call them liars.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 09:47 am
Ticomaya wrote:
freedom4free wrote:
This is complete horse pucky: this administration knew darned well precisely how the Israeli military were going to use these weapons. They're only embarassed that they had the "made in the USA" stamp on them when they were discovered unexploded.


Of course this is merely your opinion, and you have nothing to back it up other than your -- or other's -- wild fantasies.


Recommend that you try hewing a little closer to the truth, tico.

Quote:
WASHINGTON Israel has asked the Bush administration to speed delivery of short-range antipersonnel rockets armed with cluster munitions, which it could use to strike Hezbollah missile sites in Lebanon, according to two American officials.

The request for M-26 artillery rockets, which are fired in barrages and carry hundreds of grenade-like bomblets that scatter and explode over a broad area, is likely to be approved shortly, along with other arms, a senior official said Thursday.

But some State Department officials have sought to delay the approval because of concerns over the likelihood of civilian casualties, and the diplomatic repercussions
International Herald Tribune

The US is now investigating Israel's use of the cluster bombs. Israel has, three or four times in the past, used american cluster bombs in violation of international laws and agreements with the US resulting in several long periods where Israel was denied this weaponry. F4F's assumption that the US knew how Israel might use the bombs is completely reasonable given this past history and given the non-battlefield nature of Israel's operations, recent or imminent. Your suggestion his is a wild fantasy is the more unjustifiable, by a long shot.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:09 am
blatham wrote:
Recommend that you try hewing a little closer to the truth, tico.


Based on some of your prior postings, it comes as only a little surprise to see you eager to leap to a conclusion that is unsupported by any substance, and claim that others that do not choose to make that leap with you do not possess your fidelity to "truth."

F4F's assertions, and your affirmation of same, are merely wild fantasies which you have both managed to convince yourself are true. F4F seems to engage his wild fantasies on a frequent basis. In contrast, your comment is more likely another effort on your part to try and preach to me that I've strayed -- yet again -- from the path of truth and light as you see it, and I should follow your lead and believe anything negative about the present Administration, ab initio. I decline your kind invitation.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:15 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Xingu displays a good deal more concern for his credibility than do Fox and the members of her "innocent Israel" posse. etc., etc.
\

The only one who is lying is Setanta who keeps repeating the same lies over and over despite multiple posts illustrating his lies and misrepresentations of what others say so that he can call them liars.


It should be a simple matter for you to cite those posts, then. I have already done so, but i will be happy to quote once again the posts in which you have lied. Put your money where your goddamned big mouth is Fox--put up or shut up.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:17 am
Setanta wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Xingu displays a good deal more concern for his credibility than do Fox and the members of her "innocent Israel" posse. etc., etc.
\

The only one who is lying is Setanta who keeps repeating the same lies over and over despite multiple posts illustrating his lies and misrepresentations of what others say so that he can call them liars.


It should be a simple matter for you to cite those posts, then. I have already done so, but i will be happy to quote once again the posts in which you have lied. Put your money where your goddamned big mouth is Fox--put up or shut up.


I cited the post where you lied. You cite the post where I lied. I have posted multiple posts to illustrate that I didn't lie.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:25 am
Ticomaya wrote:
blatham wrote:
Recommend that you try hewing a little closer to the truth, tico.


Based on some of your prior postings, it comes as only a little surprise to see you eager to leap to a conclusion that is unsupported by any substance, and claim that others that do not choose to make that leap with you do not possess your fidelity to "truth."

F4F's assertions, and your affirmation of same, are merely wild fantasies which you have both managed to convince yourself are true. F4F seems to engage his wild fantasies on a frequent basis. In contrast, your comment is more likely another effort on your part to try and preach to me that I've strayed -- yet again -- from the path of truth and light as you see it, and I should follow your lead and believe anything negative about the present Administration, ab initio. I decline your kind invitation.


Israel used cluster bombs.
Israel got them from the Us.
Israel has previously been denied this weaponry by the US on three or four occasions specifically because it used them on civilians or in civilian areas in violation of agreements and laws.

Any error of fact here, tico?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:27 am
No, you have not cited a post in which i lied.

Foxfyre wrote:
it is directed at you only if you are among the 'some'. And you can say til the cows come home that I said Hezbollah fired 4000 rockets before Israel attacked, and you won't be able to to prove it, because I didn't.


This is a lie. At no time have i stated that you said 4000 rockets were fired before Isreal attacked, and you have not cited any such post, because it does not exist. Therefore, we can add this latest post in which you claimed you have cited a post in which i lied to the list of posts in which you have lied.

Of course, this is your original lie:

Fox wrote:
The massive military action was the direct result of Hezbollah launching thousands of Syrian/Iranian furnished rockets into Israeli civilian neighborhoods.


You have provided no evidence that this is true, but you refuse to withdraw or modify the statement. The conclusion that you are willfully lying is inevitable.

You have not cited any post in which i lied. I pointed out that you have lied, and i've now pointed out your lies for the second time. Put up or shut up, Fox--you're lying yet again.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:30 am
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/25/bombs.lebanon.ap/index.html

Quote:
U.N.: Cluster bombs litter south Lebanon

U.S. State Department investigates whether Israel broke agreements

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- Homes, gardens and highways across south Lebanon are littered with unexploded cluster bombs dropped by Israel, the U.N. said Friday, and the U.S. State Department has reportedly launched an investigation.

"There are about 285 cluster bomb locations across south Lebanon, and our teams are still doing surveys and adding new locations every day," said Dalya Farran, spokeswoman for the U.N. Mine Action Coordination Center, which has an office in the southern port city of Tyre.

"We find about 30 new locations per day," she said.

This week, the U.S. State Department began investigating Israel's use of American-made cluster bombs in south Lebanon, and whether their use violated secret agreements with Washington, The New York Times reported Friday.

State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said Friday that the department was aware of the allegations about the cluster bombs. "We are seeking more information," he said, but he declined to comment further.

Since a U.N.-brokered cease-fire took hold August 14, eight Lebanese have been killed by exploding ordnance, including two children, and 38 people have been wounded, according to a U.N. count.

"A lot of them are in civilian areas, on farmland and in people's homes. We're finding a lot at the entrances to houses, on balconies and roofs," Farran said. "Sometimes windows are broken, and they get inside the houses."

The State Department's Office of Defense Trade Controls launched an investigation into Israel's use of three types of American weapons, anti-personnel munitions that spray bomblets over a wide area, The New York Times reported.

The Israeli army said all the weapons it uses "are legal under international law, and their use conforms with international standards."

The newspaper quoted several current and former U.S. officials as saying they doubted the probe would lead to sanctions against Israel, but that it might be an effort by the Bush administration to ease Arab criticism of its military support for Israel.

The U.S. has also postponed a shipment of M-26 artillery rockets -- another cluster weapon -- to Israel, the paper said.

United Nations demining experts refused to comment on the reported U.S. investigation into whether Israel's use of such weapons might violate American rules, but suggested it violated some aspects of international law.

"It's not illegal to use against soldiers or your enemy, but according to Geneva Conventions, it's illegal to use them (cluster bombs) in civilian areas," Farran said. "But it's not up to us to decide if it's illegal -- I'm just giving facts and letting others do analysis."

During the 34-day war between Israel and Hezbollah, Israel said it was forced to hit civilian targets in Lebanon because Hezbollah fighters were using villages as a base for rocket-launchers aimed at Israel. Some 850 Lebanese died in the fighting, compared to 157 Israelis.

Lebanon's south is also riddled with land mines, laid by retreating Israeli soldiers who pulled out of the region in 2000 after an 18-year occupation. Hezbollah has also planted mines to ward off Israeli forces. Lebanon has long called for Israel to hand over maps of the minefields.
Russia dismisses claims on Hezbollah weaponry

The U.N. Mine Action Coordination Center opened a branch in Tyre in 2003, to deal with the issue of land mines. Since the cease-fire, the office has redirected its efforts toward clearing unexploded Israeli bombs from the area.

Also Friday Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov dismissed claims that Hezbollah has Russian-made Kornet anti-tank missiles.

Israel sent a delegation to Russia last week to complain about the missiles that it says were used by Hezbollah in the recent weeks of fighting in Lebanon; the missiles reportedly have been a particularly effective part of Hezbollah's arsenal.

But Ivanov said during a trip to the Russian Far East city of Magadan that the reports are "complete nonsense," news agencies reported.

"No kind of evidence of Hezbollah having such equipment has been presented to us," Ivanov said, according to the Interfax news agency.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


There does seem to be some evidence that Blatham's & F4F's proposition is true, doesn't there?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:34 am
blatham wrote:
Israel used cluster bombs.


Yes.

Quote:
Israel got them from the Us.


Yes.

Quote:
Israel has previously been denied this weaponry by the US on three or four occasions specifically because it used them on civilians or in civilian areas in violation of agreements and laws.


Not sure about the "three or four occasions," but on at least one prior occasion, yes.

Can you tell me the date that Israel was last denied a shipment of said weaponry by an American Administration for that reason?

Quote:
Any error of fact here, tico?


No (with the possible exception of your "three or four occasions" remark).
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2006 10:47 am
To Setanta, please do not call me a liar further. I have posted multiple posts that answered every charge you've made and do not care to go back and hunt them up. Please feel free to do so. And I do not care to continue this childish did too - did not argument.
0 Replies
 
 

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