Reagan Missile Defense System vindicated - of course

THADD for those like me that didn't know.

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yitwail wrote:

okie, i think it's premature to claim Reagan was vindicated, until an anti-missile system is employed successfully in an actual, combat situation rather than a test; and i'd just as soon it never comes to that. anyway, if you're going to tout missile defense, you might as well cite something more recent than a 2002 new scientist article. for instance, check out the Missile Defense Agency web site:

http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/html/newsrel.html

and critics, feel free to rebut the successes claimed therein.

Thank you yitwail. I heard on talk radio about the successful tests, whereupon I said to myself, this needs to be noted on able2know, so searched the internet and to my frustration, the search results are still saturated with the flat earthers about why it does not work, the waste of money, blah, blah, blah, until I found the link I posted, which seemed to be about the best. I thought it was a 2006 article, but you are right, the article was 2002. So thanks for your link.

And thanks , McGentrix for your just posted link to THADD.

I for one, feel just a tiny bit better knowing we are in process of perfecting this technology. Its not like I lie awake at night sweating out an attack anyway, but if thought is given to it, yes, it is a nice card to be able to play if it ever comes to that.

Another comment, for you strident liberal environmentalists, why would you not love this program? It has the potential to prevent incredibly terrible death and destruction to the environment. I know you may not care about humans that much, but think of the birds, mammals, reptiles, and all manner of other abundant animal and plant ecosystems on earth that needs protecting from communist, socialist, and islamic fascist dictators around the world that might one day go totally bonkers and push a button.

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okie, your logic for proposing reasons is both ill informed and incorrect. You righties are quick to propose and adopt "reasons" for everything from what you call environmentalist whackos to Anti Americanism for disapproval of the stupid war in Iraq.

Conservatives only bring that one skill to the table, that being the manufacture of bumper stickers that claim rationale for actions of others who are not in lock-step with your agenda. However you never seem to display any actual understanding of the complexity of issues beyond your aphorisms.
You, unfortunately, MUST buy the entire package that your borg leaders bestow upon you. Resistance is futile. We progressives look at all of lifes choices as an ala carte menu. I may piss off some of my progressive friends because of certain stands I take on gun ownership (which i e"ndorse for sane law abiding people with no armed uprisings in mind) or this. I also know Dems and others of the more centrist GOP who are also anti choice.

I never agreed with Reagans plan mostly because the science of "intelligent rocks" and " point contact" had not been perfected then and everyone knew it. The best thing Reagan did was to back the Pope and act tough so that USSR ran out of spending cash.

The first of Raytheons guidance systems on the Patriot couldnt find its ass with both hands and we fudged much of the missile "hits" in Desert Storm.
Today, with redundant guidance systems and "area" targeting more effective, we have answered many of the problems that stalked the original programs. Now, by not spending as quickly and just blowing cash in a huge govt missile defense program, scientists have been able to accomplish a lot.

Look at how the "Homeland Security" programs are working so successfully when all we pump at something is rivers of money. (IRONY BONE FULLY ENGAGED). I daresay that. from research results Ive seen from the Standard DOE R&D budget, the folks at Lawrence Livermore have successfully created large area nuclear detectors that use an array of sensistive detectors in "interferometry arrays" They use the theory that of 17 billion nuclear desintegrations per second in a spherical pattern, a series of detectors can isolate and pinpoint gamma and beta . Why arent we deploying these pieces of equipment at airports and shipping terminals?

"Were fighting them over there so we dont have to fight them over here, so well leave "over here" totally unprotected for the time being "

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farmerman, your points are accepted as legitimate arguments. Yes I agree money can be spent on programs whereby the foundation of really accomplishing anything with the money is not yet established. I would point out however that for most accomplishments, failures are necessary to pave the way with information gathered during the failures, so that success is attainable. So in that sense, the money was not a waste at all.

At least you put forth serious arguments with some logic, which is better than some liberals. I will agree liberals see the world, and issues as a many colored quilt, with so many shades of gray between the colors. You accuse conservative of not seeing the complexity of issues. I think we do, farmerman, but was it Reagan said something to the effect that behind every complex issue was a simple principle. I agree with that totally, and that is why conservatives often resort to a simple principle on which to hang their hat when a decision is made concerning a very complex issue.

To illustrate this, the quote "Were fighting them over there so we dont have to fight them over here" may appear to liberals as a very stupid, simpleton statement. What you may not give credit to however, is that many deep thinking conservatives have considered all the fog, the details, the considerations that Hussein did not actually plan 911, and all the ramifications of our policy relative to terrorists and relations with governments just as deep thinking liberals claim to do, and have concluded the bottom line will essentially amount to the above statement as the essence of the best plan.

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Re: Reagan Missile Defense System vindicated - of course

okie wrote:

All liberals should be reminded that once again they were wrong, and conservative principles, as advanced by Ronald Reagan were right. Witness now as various elements of our missile defense system are successfully tested and refined, and it is obvious the system will be workable and of priceless value.

I don't see how you read this out of the article you cite. It says the system passed a test designed to be easy, after having failed more realistic tests. Interpretations of the recently passed test range from "a completely rigged test" (expert #1) and "there's not much point in using targets you can't hit" (expert #2) to "full success" (Department of Defense spokeswoman). Evidence as ambiguous as this, and a spectrum interpretations as broad as this, don't even come close to proving any skeptics wrong. Even your own source doesn't make your case.

farmerman wrote:

All through the Manhattan project was the unspoken fear that , when the device went critical, it would start a planet wide chain reaction in the atmosphere.

I'd be interested in a source for this. Richard Feynman and Robert Junk have both described the Manhattan Project in detail. As I remember their books, none has mentioned this as a concern among the scientists -- spoken or unspoken.

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Quote:

I'd be interested in a source for this. Richard Feynman and Robert Junk have both described the Manhattan Project in detail. As I remember their books, none has mentioned this as a concern among the scientists -- spoken or unspoken.

As I understand it, the concern related to uncertainties regarding the consequences of "the beams crossing".

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Maybe I didn't highlight it well enough when I posted the clip from an article.

Since the Oct 2002 test that was declared successful there have been 3 failed tests.

I don't recall if it was the 2002 test where it was later revealed they used a homing beacon. It looks like the previous test in 2001 used a radar beacon in the warhead because they didn't yet have forward looking radar for the test. I can't yet find info on the 2002 test. The most I could find is that it was classified.

the beacon in the target is discussed here. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec01/nmd_7-16.html

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Thomas, While its been years and years since I read Brighter Than A Thousand Suns by Jungks, I thought that it was in that book that he described a certain concern for a universal chain reaction that was discuswsed prior to the Trinity test (I guess I overstepped the line of credibility by stating that the fear was "wide spread", it was probably a minority of those who were already looking ahead to fusion )

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okie wrote:

At least you put forth serious arguments with some logic, which is better than some liberals. I will agree liberals see the world, and issues as a many colored quilt, with so many shades of gray between the colors. You accuse conservative of not seeing the complexity of issues. I think we do

We? Certainly, there are some conservatives who see complexity but you ain't one of 'em. You really exposed your ignorance with this thread. You hear a blatant lie on right-wing talk radio and try to spin into proof that 'liberals" are wrong. A truly amazing Sisyphian display.

Quote:

farmerman, but was it Reagan said something to the effect that behind every complex issue was a simple principle.

Maybe what Reagan actually said made some sense but this is truly meaningless and moronic statement as repeated by okie.

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Roxxi, so can we count you as a member of the flat earth society as well. Looks like it. Count me as one that believes the obvious, the obvious being that a missile defense system is now experiencing more success in tests. And obviously, Ronald Reagan deserves credit for the vision to believe it could be done. Roxxi, you can continue to hold on to ignorance, that is your privilege. Its a free country, thanks to people like Ronald Reagan.

Simple principles can be applied to complex issues, Roxxi. Try it sometime. It works.

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okie wrote:

Roxxi, so can we count you as a member of the flat earth society as well. Looks like it. Count me as one that believes the obvious, the obvious being that a missile defense system is now experiencing more success in tests. And obviously, Ronald Reagan deserves credit for the vision to believe it could be done. Roxxi, you can continue to hold on to ignorance, that is your privilege. Its a free country, thanks to people like Ronald Reagan.

Simple principles can be applied to complex issues, Roxxi. Try it sometime. It works.

The last 3 test failed but we are experiencing more success?

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Star Wars is a monumental waste of money. Untold billions have gone down the drain for this, with virtually nothing to show for it.

Interestingly, the vaunted Patriot system used in Gulf I was later exposed as a total failure. It did not succeed in shooting down the incoming Iraqi missiles.

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Advocate wrote:

Star Wars is a monumental waste of money. Untold billions have gone down the drain for this, with virtually nothing to show for it.
.

Welfare is a monumental waste of money. Untold billions have gone down the drain for this, with virtually nothing to show for it.

Affirmative action is a monumental waste of money. Untold billions have gone down the drain for this, with virtually nothing to show for it.

Medicare is a monumental waste of money. Untold billions have gone down the drain for this, with virtually nothing to show for it.

If all you are worried about is immediate results,then there are many things to be added to the list.

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mysteryman wrote:

If all you are worried about is immediate results,then there are many things to be added to the list.

I'm astonished: MM and I agree on something. By all means let's cut down everything on that list. Including Star Wars.

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Mystery, is it then your position that we should continue throwing money at welfare, affirmative action, etc., because they may eventually be perfected?

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Advocate wrote:

Mystery, is it then your position that we should continue throwing money at welfare, affirmative action, etc., because they may eventually be perfected?

No,I think they should be totally eliminated,and the money used to build up national defense.

IMHO,every dime spent on national defense is worth it.

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Defense is more of a constitutionally mandated function of the federal government than all the social programs.

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okie wrote:

Amigo, you are an example of the folks here that are just not very grounded in reality, and you have no credibility as far as I am concerned. I don't know if it matters to you or not to try to be realistic? I've seen you on the 911 conspiracy threads, which pretty much tells us how whacked out you must be. I am guessing you may be a product of some higher education indoctrination somewhere these days? By the way, I can't find one of those 911 conspiracy threads, what happened to it?

As far as you are concerned?

How about as far as the record is concerned. How about as far as the record is conerned. The "Whacko left wing" has been right on the whole time. We can start with global warming, WMD lies, Iraq predictions, etc, etc. Anybody with any sence can see what way the wind is blowing.

Nothing the right wing says is true, They are a complete deception and perversion of ideals. I encourage people not to take my word for it but find out for themselvs, become a free thinker, you are free so be free. Where as you say "Don't listen to him, He's a whacko".

Here is the 9/11 thread.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2145613#2145613

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Amigo, if you think your opinions on 911 being a U.S. government conspiracy demonstrates your superior reasoning ability, I feel sorry for you. I will say again, just my personal opinion, but your opinions can't be taken seriously on much of anything. You have essentially rendered yourself to be a whacko, in my opinion. Others here are free to think whatever they want. Being a free thinker is not necessarily admirable, Amigo, if your thinking is out of control, not tied to reality and common sense. I agree it is free, but so free it has no connection the the gravity of reason.

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For all the money we've spent on welfare and social programs we could simply take those money-sucks and build a human shield that would stretch all the way to fugging Uranus.

What a bunch of retards. If I'm taking incoming Scuds or whatever, I at least want to attempt to defend my position. You libs all wanna go hide under a desk and duck and cover. Idiocy.

I hope I never have to go to war with any of A2K's bend over and stick it in me liberal army.

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Reagan Missile Defense System vindicated - of course

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