What's so great about America?

Lash wrote:

Your house is the International Date Line for A2K, eh?

Yeah, pretty much. The only problem is the lady Diane won't let me date.

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She lets you date Roger and BBB and osso...

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America certainly has its detractors, but for what other nation on earth have so many non-natives, for so long, felt the way D'Souza feels for the US? Certainly there are great numbers of native citizens within a great number of nations who believe their country is exceptional. It's to be expected. Certainly there are ex-pats in England, France, Argentina, Thailand and all throughout the world who love their adopted countries and for good reason, but do they regard it in the way D'Souza regards America? Perhaps, but I doubt it very much.

While fellows like yitwail may feel compelled to take their feeble shots at a piece which holds America in such a positive light, it's pretty difficult to question the sincerity of his feelings. He can hardly be considered an arrogant chauvinist.

America is tremendously successful, and Americans have it tremendously good, and this is not because of the might of our arms, or that we are obsessed with material goods. What's more, the successes of America have not been based on the defeat of other nations or peoples.

Now of course blueflame and yitwail can provide us with a long litany of American sins for, of course, they exist. I sometimes feel sorry for such people as this need to focus obsessively on the negative seems to me to be a spiritual sickness, and all the more sad because they believe it is a noble pursuit. To one extent or another though, they are necessary. They don't allow us to ignore our sins, and in ways that fall far short of satisfying them, but do well for our country, we react to correct our sins and become an even better place in which to live.

Here is another of the major virtues of this nations, we allow people like bluefame and yitwail to buzz angrily in our collective ear, and only very very rarely do we swat them away.

America is by no means perfect, but it is certainly exceptional in a very positive way.

That so many people around the world see us as the world's greatest villain is very unfortunate. It is on the one hand disturbingly perverse, but on the other, strangely understandable. We are the single most powerful nation on the face of the earth. No other nation is even close. That kind of power is scary.

China may be the next great superpower, but this is by no means a foregone conclusion and it certainly is not now. No other nation on earth, including China, has the ability to influence the lives of all mankind the way America can.

Belgium is a pretty decent country, now that they are no longer raping Africa, but since I don't get to vote for anyone in the Belgium government, I would not be very content if they had the level of power America now holds. I don't expect people in other countries of the world to be happy about a nation, over which they have virtually no personal influence, having so much influence over their lives.

What is the alternative though? Should we retreat behind our borders and mind our own business? Certainly there is an appeal, for Americans, to this course of action. Think of how much money and energy could be devoted to domestic problems. But is that really what the rest of the world wants?

It is beyond idiotic to think that if America fits more comfortably in its britches that danger and villainy in the world will fade away. Arguably it will increase, but let's assume it simply remains at current levels. No matter what a load of hyperventilating Europeans may think, America is not a threat to any of their countries. With America in retreat will Europe be able to reduce what it spends on defense? Of course not, it will have to greatly increase what it spends on defense. What will such public costs do to the much vaunted social system of Europe that is already dragging down so many European economies?

And does anyone think that if America retreats China will too, and which is a safer world - one where America is the single most powerful nation on earth or one where China is?

Of course a lot of people would feel better about the treasure and lives American spends in defending their interests if we would just not be so damn arrogant. There's some validity here. Humility is something on which we can work, but is it likely to happen because hundreds of thousands of Europeans march in the streets and declare us to be the greatest threat to the planet? Human nature suggests otherwise.

If one compares America to some utopian notion of perfection, we come up well short, but what nation fares better than us in such a comparison?

When considered in the context of historical reality America has far more virtues than vices.

I consider myself very lucky to have been born in America. It can be made better, but it remains the best.

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Yes finn, in america even old geezers from the west are allowed to own property and vote in spite of your judgement otherwise.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

I consider myself very lucky to have been born in America. It can be made better, but it remains the best.

One would guess that this represents the best. What a way to **** all over a birthday party, and this from numero uno. You must be fair to burstin' with pride, Finn.

The great leader, by his own admission, is a bald-faced liar, but then sane people knew that. The insipid ones remain insipid.

Quote:

Bush Directed Cheney To Counter War Critic
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Monday, July 3, 2006

President Bush told the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case that he directed Vice President Dick Cheney to personally lead an effort to counter allegations made by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that his administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make the case to go to war with Iraq, according to people familiar with the president's statement.

Bush also told federal prosecutors during his June 24, 2004, interview in the Oval Office that he had directed Cheney, as part of that broader effort, to disclose highly classified intelligence information that would not only defend his administration but also discredit Wilson, the sources said.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0703nj1.htm

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dyslexia wrote:

Yes finn, in america even old geezers from the west are allowed to own property and vote in spite of your judgement otherwise.

A puzzling and paranoid comment. That I think of you as something of a buffoon in no way implies that you should not be allowed to own property or vote. Of course you are.

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JTT wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

I consider myself very lucky to have been born in America. It can be made better, but it remains the best.

One would guess that this represents the best. What a way to **** all over a birthday party, and this from numero uno. You must be fair to burstin' with pride, Finn.

The great leader, by his own admission, is a bald-faced liar, but then sane people knew that. The insipid ones remain insipid.

Quote:

Bush Directed Cheney To Counter War Critic
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Monday, July 3, 2006

President Bush told the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case that he directed Vice President Dick Cheney to personally lead an effort to counter allegations made by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that his administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make the case to go to war with Iraq, according to people familiar with the president's statement.

Bush also told federal prosecutors during his June 24, 2004, interview in the Oval Office that he had directed Cheney, as part of that broader effort, to disclose highly classified intelligence information that would not only defend his administration but also discredit Wilson, the sources said.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0703nj1.htm

Irrespective of whether or not I agree with you that this report reveals some nefarious action on the part of Bush, what it has to do with the subject of this thread is beyond me.

Even assuming that this is accurate evidence that Bush abused his power in this matter, how does that undermine the exceptional virtues of America?

I don't expect you to actually read all of what I write, but if you had you would know that I freely acknowledge that America is not perfect and is guilty of numerous sins.

That this one incident might lead anyone to believe that America, as a nation, is corrupt and a threat to the world is really incredible.

By inference, your post reveals that you do not feel lucky to be an American, are not proud of your country and do not believe it to the best of the best. Is this, in fact, the case?

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Asherman wrote:

Don't be deceived into thinking Americans have grown so soft and cowardly that we can be defeated by a few thousands of fanatical religious zealots. If they want to go to Paradise, we'll be happy to help them achieve their laudable goal.

When you view this war from the standpoint of lives lost, dollars spent and chaos created it has been a dismal failure. We are not fighting the religious zealots. We are fighting innocent people in Iraq. The war has proven itself to be an exercise in futility. The US has proven itself to be unable to easily defeat even a small country such as Iraq. I am afraid the "sleeping giant" has grown soft.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

While fellows like yitwail may feel compelled to take their feeble shots at a piece which holds America in such a positive light, it's pretty difficult to question the sincerity of his feelings. He can hardly be considered an arrogant chauvinist.

i never claimed his arrogant; just misinformed, or deliberating spreading disinformation, take your pick. i've mustered enough gumption for one more feeble shot:

Quote:

America is the only country in the world where we call the waiter "Sir," as if he were a knight.

i've never called a waiter "sir." guess that makes me unAmerican.

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NickFun wrote:

Asherman wrote:
Don't be deceived into thinking Americans have grown so soft and cowardly that we can be defeated by a few thousands of fanatical religious zealots. If they want to go to Paradise, we'll be happy to help them achieve their laudable goal.

When you view this war from the standpoint of lives lost, dollars spent and chaos created it has been a dismal failure. We are not fighting the religious zealots. We are fighting innocent people in Iraq. The war has proven itself to be an exercise in futility. The US has proven itself to be unable to easily defeat even a small country such as Iraq. I am afraid the "sleeping giant" has grown soft.

If one views war in terms of lives lost, dollars spent, and chaos created, they are all dismal failures. Wars do tend to costs live and dollars and create chaos. It's their nature.

How do you figure we are not fighting religious zealots in Iraq? Of course we are. We are not just fighting religious zealots, we are also fighting Baathists who hope to drive us out of Iraq and thereby allow them to return to the power they held in the Saddam days.

Who are the innocent people we are fighting? This is an absurd statement.
Are the people who are killing their fellow Iraqis with car bombs innocent? Are the the people who lay out booby traps to kill American soldiers innocent? Are the people who behead Russian diplomats innocent? Are the snipers who put bullets into the brains of American men and women innocent? Are the people who blow up Shiite shrines innocent?

One can only assume that you have come to this conclusion by the recent revelation of atrocities committed by American soldiers. Of course they are heinous and of course they cannot be tolerated, but of course they do not represent the military strategy of American forces in Iraq.

The US defeated the country of Iraq in about three weeks, and with minimal American casualties despite the naysayers who predicted a 100,000 American dead.

The US is having a hard time defeating insurgents and terrorists. What nation has ever had an easy time with such a task?

Quote:

I am afraid the "sleeping giant" has grown soft.

What an utterly foolish statement.

If we accept your charge that the US is fighting innocent people, we might conclude the US has grown evil, but soft?

The US defeated the most militarized nation in the middle east in three weeks time. Soft?

The US has committed over 100,000 troops to the effort in Iraq and lost at least 2,500 of these brave men and women, Soft?

You seem to take glee in the (entirely specious) accusation of American softness. If America ever goes soft and rots from within it will be thanks to those Americans who find greater fault in their own nation than in its enemies. Thankfully the chances of this happening, despite all your wishes, is very slim indeed.

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I'll tell you what's great about America.

Sending a man to the moon, being at the forefront of science and technology, having the most technologically advanced military in existence (wish we didn't use it as much as we do though), baseball, basketball, and New York City.

Happy 4th people.

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yitwail wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
While fellows like yitwail may feel compelled to take their feeble shots at a piece which holds America in such a positive light, it's pretty difficult to question the sincerity of his feelings. He can hardly be considered an arrogant chauvinist.

i never claimed his arrogant; just misinformed, or deliberating spreading disinformation, take your pick. i've mustered enough gumption for one more feeble shot:

Quote:
America is the only country in the world where we call the waiter "Sir," as if he were a knight.

i've never called a waiter "sir." guess that makes me unAmerican.

Even more feeble than the last one.

This is the best you can muster, and, more importantly, why do you feel you need to muster any critique?

If you are an American, why do you feel it necessary to find fault with someone praising your country?

If you are not an American, why do you feel it necessary to find fault with someone who is praising America?

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JustanObserver wrote:

I'll tell you what's great about America.

Sending a man to the moon, being at the forefront of science and technology, having the most technologically advanced military in existence (wish we didn't use it as much as we do though), baseball, basketball, and New York City.

Happy 4th people.

Amen little brother!

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JustanObserver wrote:

I'll tell you what's great about America.

Sending a man to the moon, being at the forefront of science and technology, having the most technologically advanced military in existence (wish we didn't use it as much as we do though), baseball, basketball, and New York City.

Happy 4th people.

I'll take San Francisco over NYC any day...driving down 101 from Marin into the GG bridge, is one of the most awesome sights in the world. First you catch a glimpse of Alcatraz, then the towers of the bridge then the whole city comes in view, it is spectacular. I get chills every time.

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Asherman wrote:

America is where one gets to choose their own social class, and pursue their own ideas without government interference. Here a man can start a pushcart business and his son might graduate from Harvard and be worth millions. .

And monkeys may fly out of my...and here I thought that I had the best medical grade stuff!!!

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Roxxxanne wrote:

JustanObserver wrote:
I'll tell you what's great about America.

Sending a man to the moon, being at the forefront of science and technology, having the most technologically advanced military in existence (wish we didn't use it as much as we do though), baseball, basketball, and New York City.

Happy 4th people.

I'll take San Francisco over NYC any day...driving down 101 from Marin into the GG bridge, is one of the most awesome sights in the world. First you catch a glimpse of Alcatraz, then the towers of the bridge then the whole city comes in view, it is spectacular. I get chills every time.

San Francisco is a wonderful place, but it is not, and never will be The City : NYC.

Walk the streets of Manhattan and you can feel the New York buzz humming along your skin and in your chest. Never so in San Fran. Power rushes through the canyons of The Big Apple. It is the American city.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

How do you figure we are not fighting religious zealots in Iraq? Of course we are. We are not just fighting religious zealots, we are also fighting Baathists who hope to drive us out of Iraq and thereby allow them to return to the power they held in the Saddam days.

Who are the innocent people we are fighting? This is an absurd statement.
Are the people who are killing their fellow Iraqis with car bombs innocent? Are the the people who lay out booby traps to kill American soldiers innocent? Are the people who behead Russian diplomats innocent? Are the snipers who put bullets into the brains of American men and women innocent? Are the people who blow up Shiite shrines innocent?

These car bombs that are blowing up and booby traps that line the roads and the snipers killing Americans are all a result of us invading them! We went into Iraq under the false pretense of atonement for 9/11. When we realized Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 we then justified it with "to eliminate WMD's. Of course, that also proved to be a lie.

As far as religious zealotry, the US has become a right-wing Christian nation. "Our God is better than their God". The Iraqi people posed no threat to us AT ALL! The US has never taken responsibility for the suffering it has caused. We are own own worst enemy. So many, like you, are blaming the Iraqi people alone. Can we do no wrong? Actually, we have proven ourselves to be the most reprehensible nation on Earth!

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NickFun wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

How do you figure we are not fighting religious zealots in Iraq? Of course we are. We are not just fighting religious zealots, we are also fighting Baathists who hope to drive us out of Iraq and thereby allow them to return to the power they held in the Saddam days.

Who are the innocent people we are fighting? This is an absurd statement.
Are the people who are killing their fellow Iraqis with car bombs innocent? Are the the people who lay out booby traps to kill American soldiers innocent? Are the people who behead Russian diplomats innocent? Are the snipers who put bullets into the brains of American men and women innocent? Are the people who blow up Shiite shrines innocent?

These car bombs that are blowing up and booby traps that line the roads and the snipers killing Americans are all a result of us invading them! We went into Iraq under the false pretense of atonement for 9/11. When we realized Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 we then justified it with "to eliminate WMD's. Of course, that also proved to be a lie.

Your logic: If the police interrupt a bank robbery and are shot at and officers killed, it is their fault because they attempted to stop the crime. The bank robbers who fired at them were "innocents."

Whatever our justification for invading Iraq may or may not have been, it doesn't render murderers as innocents. Wait, I smell the argument: "One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter!"

Let's see, the murderers who deliberately kill innocent Iraqis through the use of suicide bomber attacks unquestionably directed at average Iraqi citizens, are, in fact, the true innocents because America invaded Iraq under false pretenses?

No wait, it's the fact that we invaded Iraq under false pretenses that forced the innocent bad guys to kill innocent Iraqis.

If only we hadn't invaded Iraq, innocents would not, now, be killed. Saddam would never have killed them, and so their blood is on our hands.

As far as religious zealotry, the US has become a right-wing Christian nation. "Our God is better than their God". The Iraqi people posed no threat to us AT ALL! The US has never taken responsibility for the suffering it has caused. We are own own worst enemy. So many, like you, are blaming the Iraqi people alone. Can we do no wrong? Actually, we have proven ourselves to be the most reprehensible nation on Earth!

Incoherent.

You claimed that we are not fighting religious zealots. I responded that of course we are and asked you to explain how we are not. Your reply? America is full of religious zealots! Well, that explains it all, doesn't it?

I am not blaming the Iraqi people at all. Such a claim is ridiculous. I am blaming the Rabid Islamists and power hungry Baathists who are but a small minority within the Iraqi people.

We have proven ourselves to be the most reprehensible nation on Earth?

How so?

More reprehensible than North Korea that starves its people to fund its military?

More reprehensible than The Sudan that is engaged in the systematic elimination of a segment of its population?

More reprehensible than Haiti where chaos and corruption reign?

More reprehensible than Iran where a theocracy rules the land with an iron fist and the president calls for wiping another sovereign nation off of the map?

More reprehensible than Zimbabwe, Ubekistan, Burma (Myanmar), Russia, China, or Yemen?

How so?

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

If you are an American, why do you feel it necessary to find fault with someone praising your country?

why should i not criticize absurd statements? D'Souza's ode to supposed American material abundance has as much substance as a Potemkin village. however, i do acknowledge his refutation of a recent claim by Ann Coulter of a "correlation [that exists] between poor student achievement and time spent in U.S. public schools" with this declaration:

Quote:

Every child is given an education, and most have the chance to go on to college.

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I liked this paragraph.

Fedral, quoting Dinesh D'Souza wrote:

The immigrant cannot help noticing that America is a country where the poor live comparatively well. This fact was dramatized in the 1980s, when CBS television broadcast an anti-Reagan documentary, "People Like Us," which was intended to show the miseries of the poor during an American recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the documentary, with the intention of embarrassing the Reagan administration. But it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans had television sets and cars. They arrived at the same conclusion that I witnessed in a friend of mine from Bombay who has been trying unsuccessfully to move to the United States for nearly a decade. I asked him, "Why are you so eager to come to America?" He replied, "Because I really want to live in a country where the poor people are fat."

I can also confirm the effect of the documentary on Russian people. Victor Jerofiev, a Russian author and former dissident, mentioned it in an article for the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, where I read it about 10 years ago.

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What's so great about America?

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